[noemon]

Muslim leaders like Erdogan and others mentioned, openly incite their population against Europe in an aggressive attempt to revise Peace Treaties, idiots have now become terrorists as per the instructions of those who call themselves leaders of the Muslim world.

[Goranhammer 2.0]

European terrorism created the USA and Israel. So it's likely that our media, politicians, and other institutions (disciplinary institutions) have morphed into perma-liars for their racist wars against other peoples. That means that rich, plunder-addicted nations simply can't tell the truth because it would reduce their ability to kill foreigners.

Likewise, after the "attacks" in France, France bombed Mali and killed 50 people. The media calls these victims "terrorists" "Jihadists" and "Al Qaeda." As if the media had time to investigate who these victims of bombing were.

Imagine if our media had called the victims of those small European massacres "pedophiles with COVID-19 searching for cocaine and prostitutes" with absolutely no investigation into their actual identities. This would be an extreme example of xenophobia and hate media.

That's what we have as our national news sources: The Xenophobia Times, and Hate Week. All our media's harping about "the racism of garage mechanics in hick towns" and "the need for black, female snipers on every rooftop" are just spin to cover their hairy-assed racism and the xenophobia they deploy in their media to manufacture profitable (for their sponsors) wars.

We are being ripped off by these people, so their lies will get thicker and thicker.

So retaliatory strikes are "racist". Gotcha.

It sounds like you're [still] measuring Western civilization by your Crusades-era ruler.

What you call plunder, the sane world calls "free trade". You could argue that the United States invaded (the first time around) Iraq for oil and veiled it with a thin layer of morality and American obligation, but that's aside from the fact that Iraq itself invaded Kuwait for illegitimate reasons.

You're doing what the left typically does: call everyone a racist in an attempt to score faux dog-whistle points with everyone left of Alinsky. The truth is more simple - your beloved people are just savages, several centuries behind in evolution with the first world, praying to their murder-god for an excuse to leave a world that's already left them behind.

[Oxymoron]

it's not the center of my culture. Europe is the center of bad ideas not to copy, Europe is nothing more to my culture than an object lesson in paths not to take.

post World war 1 definitely, but still it is the cultural center of the modern world, it is what all our standards are based on. The Greek/Roman world that it represents.

[Unthinking Majority]

It's pretty sad that people really don't care much about deaths in Africa.

Fear runs well in the news cycle. People fear violent Islamists who live in the West.

[noemon]

post World war 1 definitely, but still it is the cultural center of the modern world, it is what all our standards are based on. The Greek/Roman world that it represents.

This western culture has a significant Judean element fused into it from both the ancients(via Christianity) but also perhaps even more significantly from the modern Jews and it can be called so many different names, western, European, Anglo-Saxon, German, Roman, Latin. Essentially at its core, is the deconstruction of authority for the sake of liberty. My favourite summation of our civilisation came from Boris Johnson when he distilled it into the cries of Achilles when King Agamemnon took his slave woman, his pain, sorrow, rage & despair led the warrior to question the King and then abandon him forcing the King to come to terms with the warrior. These cries of injustice and the force required for a human to make the jump from being part of a herd of sheep to seeking a place at the King's table is what has been driving all these advances forward. "Who cares that you call yourself King". That is what our civilisation is & has been all about.

Anyhoo, I just wanted the opportunity to say something on that, but need to point out that we should not be turning this into a clash of civilisations because it goes into the abstract and then it just becomes a case of cheerleading, which also has a place & a time especially when so much cynicism & propaganda goes around but it is not productive when there are specific culprits for the recent events because the clash of civilisations argument distracts the attention from these actual culprits, who in this case is largely Turkey. Erdogan has been going on for months even years rallying Muslims with all he has. Only 0.01% of what he actually says & does on a daily basis reach our eyes and ears because British, American and German media have been very silent & numb.

[ingliz]

I don't see what all the whining is about. You are fighting a war/s and your* casualties have been minimal. And this 'poor innocents' crap doesn't cut it with me. I don't see how it is more moral to drop a bomb than to wrap yourself up in one. - Why do you have to be rich to blow people up?

* Malta Constitution, Chapter 1:1(3)

"Malta is a neutral state actively pursuing peace, security
and social progress among all nations by adhering to a policy of
non-alignment and refusing to participate in any military alliance."

[MadMonk]

I don't see what all the whining is about. You are fighting a war/s and your* casualties have been minimal. And this 'poor innocents' crap doesn't cut it with me. I don't see how it is more moral to drop a bomb than to wrap yourself up in one. - Why do you have to be rich to blow people up?

And "to wrap yourself up in one" and detonate it to cause as many civilian casualties as possible, justifies "to drop a bomb" later on. To me or you? Perhaps not but make no mistake; there are many in Europe who loves when this happens. Justifies the contempt, justifies hate.

Perhaps justifies should be replaced. Condones? Explains? Maintains?

[noemon]

I don't see what all the whining is about. You are fighting a war/s and your* casualties have been minimal. And this 'poor innocents' crap doesn't cut it with me. I don't see how it is more moral to drop a bomb than to wrap yourself up in one. - Why do you have to be rich to blow people up?
* Malta Constitution, Chapter 1:1(3)
"Malta is a neutral state actively pursuing peace, security
and social progress among all nations by adhering to a policy of
non-alignment and refusing to participate in any military alliance."

Malta is one of the very few EU nations along with Germany that refuses sanctions against Turkey, thus enabling blatant military aggression on European borders, revisionism & terrorism inside Europe. Muslim terrorism uses both conventional and unconventional weapons like terrorists wrapped in them, but the "moral difference" between the 2, is not the subject of the thread.

[QatzelOk]

My favourite summation of our civilisation came from Boris Johnson when he distilled it into the cries of Achilles when King Agamemnon took his slave woman, his pain, sorrow, rage & despair led the warrior to question the King and then abandon him forcing the King to come to terms with the warrior. These cries of injustice and the force required for a human to make the jump from being part of a herd of sheep to seeking a place at the King's table is what has been driving all these advances forward. "Who cares that you call yourself King". That is what our civilisation is & has been all about.

While there are a lot of interesting mythological stories in every culture, the "correct way of interpreting them" is almost always the result of current propaganda trends and desired narratives that fit recent atrocities of the elites. Trends swallow up any potential wisdom that might have been ageless from our texts.

The West IS the corrupt king in that story, and the rest of the world outside of the West, is looking at us and thinking "who cares if you think yourself supreme - it's only because you have poisons to threaten us, and not helpfullness to offer anyone."

Even our "Muslim attacks" are mostly invented to maintain support for all the West's wars on the rest of the world to steal their resources (since we've pissed away our own).

Pissing away resources, destroying your land, and then attacking foreigners to steal their stuff.... What a beautiful culture! Maybe Euros should "force-teach" the world how to piss away resources and then steal from others.

[Goranhammer 2.0]

It's pretty sad that people really don't care much about deaths in Africa.

Fear runs well in the news cycle. People fear violent Islamists who live in the West.

It's not a matter of caring.

The explanation to your point lies in Stalin's observation of difference between one death and a million.

[Atlantis]

Islamist terror is a royal pain in the A, but it's not a substantial threat to Western security. Anyways, Islamist terror is past its peak.

The real threat to Western democracy is right-wing populism. And far-right terror is far more widespread, even though Islamists manage to return to the headlines with some spectacular cases from time to time.

It's also normal that we should be more concerned about the victims of terrorism at home than in distant places about which we can't do anything anyways.

[noemon]

The West IS the corrupt king in that story, and the rest of the world outside of the West, is looking at us and thinking "who cares if you think yourself supreme - it's only because you have poisons to threaten us, and not helpfullness to offer anyone."

How is Europe and more particularly Greece, Austria & France "poisoning someone" or "thinking themselves supreme in relation to others" to deserve these terrorist & military attacks by Turkey?

Have you considered the possibility that the "corrupt king in this story" is Erdogan trying to consolidate power in Turkey and the Muslim world with land grabs and wars all across his borders?

[QatzelOk]

How is Europe and more particularly Greece, Austria & France "poisoning someone" or "thinking themselves supreme in relation to others" to deserve these terrorist & military attacks by Turkey?

Western Europeans - like North Americans, Australians and Israelis - have a high standard of living that is based on impoverishing the rest of the world.

This is social poison, and it was constructed on Euro-racism which is the most important "content" of all of Western writing in the last few thousand years.

"How to scapegoat others and make shitloads of money" is Western Culture. That's why racism comes so easily to us.

As I mentioned earlier, most of Europe's "Muslim attacks" are fake propaganda that is created to make the French and other Euro soldiers kill harder for money.

[Patrickov]

Western Europeans - like North Americans, Australians and Israelis - have a high standard of living that is based on impoverishing the rest of the world.

I assume you take the same view against Russians, Japanese, Korean, Taiwanese, Hongkongers, Malaysians, many of whom also benefited from Western lifestyle, but not Chinese, right?

[Patrickov]

No, Patrickov. QatzelOk hates everyone but the French(because he's French-Canadian). He's a deluded sanctimonious primitivist.

Noted with thanks.

What I mean is that there are far more people -- than that Member believes -- who "have a high standard of living, which itself is based on impoverishing the rest of the world."

Even China, which that Member and another often speak in support, consists of a large number of such people.

While I might have my own conclusions, prejudice, etc. against that Member, I still wish to see how that Member responds.

[Istanbuller]

It used to be right wing Europeans and Americans tend to call Muslims "terrorists". Now it changed. Left side of the political spectrum is trying to take on Muslims. Left wing Islamophobia is on the rise.

I believe that populist actions by left leaning leaders like Macron and Joe Biden are doomed to fail. Muslim populations in the West will take on them when they reach sizeable numbers in these countries.

[noemon]

Western Europeans - like North Americans, Australians and Israelis - have a high standard of living that is based on impoverishing the rest of the world.

This is social poison, and it was constructed on Euro-racism which is the most important "content" of all of Western writing in the last few thousand years.

"How to scapegoat others and make shitloads of money" is Western Culture. That's why racism comes so easily to us.

As I mentioned earlier, most of Europe's "Muslim attacks" are fake propaganda that is created to make the French and other Euro soldiers kill harder for money.

Your racism against Greeks & Austrians comes so naturally to you because you care more about your pro-Muslim narrative than you care about actual people. Your social poison is the one seeking to justify terrorism & death in service of Erdogan's attempts to steal resources by invading foreign countries.

I asked you about the particular countries, Greece, Austria & France that are being openly targeted by Erdogan and Turkey for standing by international law & calling out Erdogan's ultra-nationalist attacks on European borders with both conventional and unconventional weapons, unlike the US, Britain & Germany who stand by idly blocking sanctions against Erdogan thus enabling him to run amok making war against all his neighbours.

Why do Greece, France and Austria deserve Turco-Muslim terrorism according to you?

[Patrickov]

I believe that populist actions by left leaning leaders like Macron and Joe Biden are doomed to fail. Muslim populations in the West will take on them when they reach sizeable numbers in these countries.

IMHO this Member seems rather keen to make threats against whoever he doesn't like.

When "someone should die" is quite heavy language by itself (and quite frankly, something I often say), "we will take on someone when we have certain numbers" is another level -- it's outright terrorism advocation.

[Istanbuller]

It is not the issue of who i like and don't like. I am talking about facts. France has 10 million growing Muslim community. They are not going to disappear anytime soon. They are going to be a headache for anti-Islamists.

It is better for the West to adopt Islamic oriented policies to keep integrity at home. Macron and Biden's attacks on Islamic communities will backfire.

[Patrickov]

It is not the issue of who i like and don't like. I am talking about facts. France has 10 million growing Muslim community. They are not going to disappear anytime soon. They are going to be a headache for anti-Islamists.

It is better for the West to adopt Islamic oriented policies to keep integrity at home. Macron and Biden's attacks on Islamic communities will backfire.

Macron probably does not represent himself but a large portion of French rightwingers. Almost every French presidential election since 1995 has been about a fight to fend off the Le Pens. Unlesd you think a Le Pen presidency is preferrable I'd say any French leader had to say something to appease those people one way or another.

Meanwhile I thought Trump was more belligerent than Biden on verbally abusing minorities. Any examples on Biden being unreasonably stern on Muslims?

As for orientation of policies, I am your polar opposite -- I believe the Western style of government should be applied and maintained almost everywhere in the world. Those reactionary but undefeatable should be confined as much as possible.