4 Greatest Leaders of All-Time - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#201315
Criteria for my list:

1. Must have made positive contributions to the world or his/her society. The person doesn't have to have made a giant impact over huge areas, but they had to at least make a giant impact on one region.

2. MUST BE CHOSEN FOR REASONS OTHER THAN MILITARY VICTORIES AND EXPANSION. (i.e. No Genghis Khan's!)

3. Please, no Lenin or Stalin. I already know most of you love them for some reason. Keep it out of this post.

4. No religious personalities. (Mohammad, Jesus...)



HERES MY PICKS:

1. Charlemagne_ Probably the most positive figure in history. He temporarily ended feudal rule in Western Europe and was focused on teaching everyone, even the poor, so that everyone in his lands had the opprotunity to prosper. He made great leaps in education and spread the idea of unity rather than feudalism.

2. Alexander the Great_ Not only was Alexander the Great a great general, but he was a very capable leader also. Alexander the Great established prosperous cities all over the world. He tolerated all beliefs like no one before or after him. He encouraged scholastic growth and libraries. Most of his enormous empire was loyal to him because of his acceptance, and he was not brutal to any of them. Had he not died prematurely only a couple of years after his military campaigns, he would have turned his empire into not only the largest superpower in history, but the most prosperous one yet known.

3. Pericles_ Although some considered Athens a tyrannical city-state that only thrived by manipulating its neighbors, it is undeniable that during Pericles's time in power, the world saw the fastest philosophical, scientific, and artistic growth it would ever see. Hundreds of Athenians during Pericles' rule are recognized names in their fields. Pericles allowed Athens to maintain sovereignty and brought it to its greatest cultural height, a height that would never be matched by another civilization. Had Pericles not died along with thousands of his fellow Athenians in the plague during the Pelopennesian Wars, Athens would have continued to prosper and push the world forward with its innovative citizens. Unfortunately, he was replaced by a series of incapable leaders who all but gave the Delian Confederacy up to the Pelopennesian League.

4. Frederick II_ Although he ignored his German states and allowed the Holy Roman Empire to collapse, he united southern Italy through education and made it the greatest culture of his time. He established Europe's first great universities, and and was a key figure in ending the Medieval period. He debatedly engineered the Renaissance. brought about the Renaissance Like Alexander the Great and Pericles, his life's potential was never seen. As he began turning Sicily into the most prosperous region of the world, the pope forced him to crusade, wasting many years and weakening his creation.
By Stanislav
#201506
Now now...I wonder who wrote this post. Sorry people of the forums, the punk who created this thread lives down the street from me. He always says these types of things, I can tell it is him.
By sokath
#201573
I don't really know what the point of that last post was. :p But I quite honestly think that Ramses II (the great) of Egypt was one of THE best rulers of all time. He was a New Kingdom (I think 19th dynasty) pharaoh who ruled some 75 years after Tutankhamen.

Granted, he kinda had time of his side (he lived to be 94) but he made some pretty spectacular achievements. He conquered a lot of Nubia (now Sudan) and a subdued most of the region, in addition to keeping his people happy and maintaining Egypt's golden age. He build huge temples, such as those at Abu Simbel and managed to expand Egypt's territory far off into the desert (not that this did much good) and supposedly he's Moses' biblical "Pharaoh".

Oh yeah, and he had thousands of wives and supposedly sired like 100+ kids.... what a guy...

I dunno, I'm kinda partial to ancient Egypt, and sometimes the facts on tomb walls can be kinda skewed... but this guy was fucking solid.

S./
By the SovieT
#201593
i dont think taht counts Sokath, Ramses was most of all a religious personality ...



i think that no mather what Ghenghis Khan deserves some respect...
he did no mather what unite all the mongolian tribes into a strong and brutal empire..

yet i would choose Vercigentorix first...
he not only also united the franc tribes but he also *almost* beated the incredible roman war machine...
if he only started his war sooner i am sure he would have beated Caesar, more than a great military leader he was a simbol of the tribal and national resistence to the foreing opressor, he transformed what was a easy conquer into hell to the romans....
By Comrade Koatna
#201611
I dont think Ramses the 2nd is a religious personality but ok. I do agree however Ramses was a great leader to his people. Another I would say is Ceaser and/or Alexander the Great.
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By Boondock Saint
#201731
I protest all those damn guidelines ...

I think Stalin was a scum bag ... but he was one hell of a leader.

You know who gets my vote?

Ghandi mofo ... cause he can kick your ass without actually resorting to violence ...
By GlobalJustice
#201735
Agreed about Gandhi. Definitely up there. If only there were more of him...

The_SovieT:
Ramses II was not just a religious leader.

Genghis Khan was one of the greatest leaders, considering he came from a broken Mongol tribe and conquered more land than the Mongols even knew existed, however, he didn't have a very positive impact on the world.

I agree, Vercigentorix would probably have made a great leader, but he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even if he had destroyed the Roman legions the fall of Gaul was inevitable.
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By Boondock Saint
#201738
Genghis Khan was one of the greatest leaders, considering he came from a broken Mongol tribe and conquered more land than the Mongols even knew existed, however, he didn't have a very positive impact on the world.


BAH!

That is where I disagree ...

Warfare, pillaging, conquering and devastating one enemies IS a gift to the world!

I think we would disagree with the concept of positive ... not that I am a huge fan of Genghis ... but lets be real ... his gifts to the world were the most noble of gifts ...

At least ... as I see it.
By Switters
#201892
Sokath, how can you say such things about Ramses, especially during Passover. That fucker enslaved my people. Good thing Moses smoked his ass with those plagues, killed his first born son good.

Let my people go.
By Comrade Koatna
#201981
Good thing Moses smoked his ass with those plagues, killed his first born son good.


Not all of us would agree with this seeing as how not all of us are religious. As far as some of us are concerned Moses never existed and Jesus was black.
By Switters
#202017
Comrade Koatna, did you have your sense of humour removed at birth, or did you just let it atrophy and die?
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By Boondock Saint
#202025
Switters wrote:Comrade Koatna, did you have your sense of humour removed at birth, or did you just let it atrophy and die?


By the gods thats one of the funnyest things I have ever heard ...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

WELL DONE!

And ... could Jesus have been black if Moses didnt exist? Would there have been a Jesus to be black in the first place if Moses didnt exist?

Ponder this while I eat an egg sandwhich.
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By Demosthenes
#202108
Disagree if you want but Passover was the best thing to happen to the Jews at the time since the invention of the egg sandwich.
*thinks of the Metallica song Creeping Death*
*starts to sing in a horrribly off key voice*

"So let it be written,
So let it be done,
To kill the first born Pharoah's son,
I'm Creeping Death...

Die by my hand,
I creep across the land,
Killing first born man,
Die...!"

Best song they ever did! I'm with ya Switters!"
By Comrade Koatna
#202134
Comrade Koatna, did you have your sense of humour removed at birth, or did you just let it atrophy and die?


My apologies I thought you were serious.

And ... could Jesus have been black if Moses didnt exist? Would there have been a Jesus to be black in the first place if Moses didnt exist?


Well I beleive what my history books tell me. And according to my history books and the founding of the religion then yes he did exist. But as far as proverbs, stories, and fables from the Jewish and Christian holy books...I dont beleive them. So in conclsion I dont beleive Moses existed...just another story. And Jesus I beleive DID exist because someone founded the religion and I see no other plausable explanation.
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By Demosthenes
#202155
Aw man, didn't you read those awesome lyrics? Dont you know Metallica never lies? Well at least they didn't before they cut their hair. Now...well they just suck.
Come on man it's Creeping Death... you just can't doubt that. I don't care if Jesus himself came down and said it was BS.! :D
By sokath
#202202
Switters wrote:Sokath, how can you say such things about Ramses, especially during Passover. That fucker enslaved my people. Good thing Moses smoked his ass with those plagues, killed his first born son good.

Let my people go.

Bahahahahahahahahahah! :lol: :lol: Oh my god, you kill me! :lol:

Although I did post that prior to passover.

And Ramses II was not a religious leader. While he was the personification of the sun-god Ra, to his people, he pretty much kicked ass at everything else.

:lol: Man, I'm still laughing. :lol:

S./
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By Fidel Nico
#202288
Look mate Lenin was a god dam great leader where History is concerned...communist or not communist.

Others

*Winston Churchill - not a good normal leader - but a great war leader holding Britain togther during the war.
*Napoleon Bornaparte perhaps
*Mao Tse Tung - in organising and leading the revolution, and the developing China.
*FDR - Franklin Rosevelt (think I spelled it wrong - bet that looks bad) - helped lead USA out of depression.

Not Brilliant Leaders, but leaders all the same:

Clement Atlee - helped head democratic socialism in Britain creating the Welfare state in post war Britain.

Tony Blair - has done much to lead the Labour Party, reshaping it and having a firm grip on it in power. He is the only electable leader currently of the Labour Party - I feel.

Charles De Gaulle - I may not like his politics....but he wasn't a bad leader of France, and held it together.

Margaret Thatcher - A leader in that she was the nearest Britain came to tyranny...hehe.

Bad Leaders:

Gorbachev - made major mistakes, and ended himself out of power.

Lech Walesea - made a balls up when he came to power.
By Proctor
#202295
Gandhi is awesome. So he is one of the four. In two of the other spots are Napoleon Bonaparte and that dude from Sicily who united Italy in the 19th century. Can't remember his name, but anyone who can get up and leave his peasanting, raise an army as he goes and defeat a couple of kings on the way, before handing over leadership and going back to the peasanting deserves some kudos. Pity he changed his mind and tried to rebel again four years later...
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By Adrien
#202626
Isn't that guy Garibaldi?

Anyway, it's hard to choose 4 leaders, because they all more or less brought something important to history, i think it would be easier to choose the 4 worst leaders of history.

Well, let's try to choose important leaders and why they are important...

-Napoleon Bonaparte: he created all our actual administration, the Civil Code, and saved France from the disaster the monarchies could have provoked, even if the armies of the Revolution since Valmy were doing quite well.

-A group of three kings: Philippe-Auguste (first creator of "modern" administration), Francois Ist (for culture, arts), and Charlemagne.

-Robespierre: he led the revolution, and even if his methods became completely strange after a while, and even if he was brutal, he consolidated the revolution.

-Charles de Gaulles: he restored our honour, and even if i don't like what he did when he became a real politician, he "is" France during WWII.

-Lenin: sorry, I couldn't resist. ;) By the way, while cherching photos of his mausoleum, i came across speeches of him in .ram format, quite interesting to hear, even if i didn't understand a word.
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By Fidel Nico
#202636
A very french choice comrade. Then again the French always do thinks best...and with style! Vive La France! (I do hope thats phrased right!)

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