[ahab]

We've all heard this arguement... I've always wondered how the US would go about doing this. I see no way that the US could do it and not make it obvious and have MASSIVE backlash.

[Boondock Saint]

Um ...

Even I, an ardent support of the US and patriot can find fault with your rather vague statement ...

The US can take Iraqi oil.

Think about this.

The US has shown that can and WILL look the UN in the eyes and stare it down ... the US now knows the UN will back down. What does this mean?

If the US chose to establish a regime in Iraq and forego the entire idea of democracy in Iraq then what will the world do?

Nothing.

Sure the people will protest and the diplomats will yell but what will happen in truth?

If the US give the Iraqi people more freedom, safety and food then they could ever dream of under Saddam then ... would the majority of Iraqi people really care? One can speculate but history has shown that the people in general care more about their own self then what flag or banner flys over head. The people want their food, safety and shelter ...

Furthermore ... the US showing it will stare down the UN has set a precedent ... what precedent is that? That the US takes priority over the UN. Meaning that the US will do as it pleases to who it pleases when it pleases regardless of whether it please the UN or not.

This is a threat to the UN and all its members with out a doubt.

But the UN is not the moral or just institution it thinks it is. There is just as much democracy as their is dictatorship within the UN and so the UN has become a bastion of self interests under the guise of world interests.

But this thread is about the US ...

Back to Iraq and its oil - if the US set up a state in Iraq and says this land is ours. Who will challenge the US?

The UN? What member within the UN will cancel its treaties with the US? What member within the UN will send its forces to once again 'liberate' the people of Iraq?

And most importantly ... why the hell would the US go and force the UN's hand like that?

And even more - the US military would put up one hell of a fight but with all the world aligned against it there is no doubt it would fall ... and what would happen when it did?

The US still holds a massive force of nukes ... the US can still destroy the world several times over ...

Perhaps THAT is why all the world wants to see self control when it comes to the US and perhaps that is why the world is so unhappy with the US rampaging across the globe.

But oil? Thats easy ... you claim it, and you take it ... and no one wil stop you.

[Seamus Warren]

We've all heard this arguement... I've always wondered how the US would go about doing this. I see no way that the US could do it and not make it obvious and have MASSIVE backlash.

I reckon the US should use Iraqi oil sales to contribute at least in part to the cost of this war that is hitting the US economy hard. Most of the oil revenue should go towards building Iraq and aiding the people of Iraq.

Everyone wants the Yanks out of Iraq fast and the axis of greed (France, Germany, and Russia) have been trying to get the UN involved, which really means they want to salvage their oil contracts and outstanding debts if possible. They want their finger in the pie even though their young men and women have not shed a drop of blood freeing Iraq.

I say the occupying powers run the show for now at least and even though I hate the UN, I suppose they will have a role sooner or later. American completly rebuilt Germany and Japan after WWII so I don't know why they can't rebuild Iraq.

Saddam has been ripping off his own people for years. His Arab brothers! But this is okay of course because Arabs are allowed to treat each other like animals. The foreigners who help rebuild a free Iraq will probably in the be hated!

[Kov]

Some food for thought to throw into this pot-

Dick Chenie owns a corperation asociated with Oil refigning. Funny how the first company, only company, on the site in Iraq, ironicaly after the war began was infact Chenie's.

[Sheep...]

He didn't own it, he helped run it; it was called Haliburton, but yeah i think thats funny.

[ahab]

A subsidiary of Halliburton was hired only to fight oil fires. They are one of the few companies in the US that fight oil fires, and they happen to be the largest. Cheney had the job as president at Halliburton from 1995 to 2000.

it is being investigated by committees in the US congress if there is anyting seriously fishy about it

[Boondock Saint]

Halliburton was actually taken off the tables for now for the very reason of avoiding a scandle and accusations. Its true about the subsidary though.

But hey, someone had to do it.

[Siberian Fox]

This whole oil argument is funny... here, have a conspiracy theory:

Yes that war on Iraq is all about oil, but not how everyone seems to think it is... because the USA is going to benefit a ton-o-cash without ever having to take one barrel of oil from Iraq. Intrieged? Read on...

It was not so long ago (last year I beleive) that the great arch nemesis of the Bush family, Saddam Hussein decided that he had had enough of selling oil in Dollars. So Saddam (cunning as he is) did something really, really clever, he stopped selling oil in dollars and started selling it in Euros.

Well so what? cries the gallery...

Most dollars are not held inside the United States, they are held by foreigners, be they currency speculators, drug dealers... or Oil Exporting Countries. This accounts for a huge section of demand for US dollars, and without that huge demand the value of the dollar would fall significantly. Indeed, following Saddam switching to selling oil in Euros the value of the Euro rose and the dollar depreciated meaning the Saddam Hussein made an absolute killing just by watching the exchange rate change. Of course there are other reasons for the recovery of the Euro, but if ALL of OPEC were to switch to trading oil in Euros there would be a crash in demand for the dollar -> therefore a crash in the value of the dollar on the money markets.

Well so what? cries the gallery...

The USA maintains a massive balance of payments defecit. In english that means it imports a lot more than it exports. A huge fall in the value of the dollar would mean that overnight a vast ammount of what the average American consumer wants to buy becomes a lot more expensive. Coupled with the USA already being in economic difficulty, compounded by the economic effects of the WTC attacks, the USA would be pushed into a severe recession. Whilst of course the Eurozone countries would be laughing (France, Germany et al). And remember folks, the UK is not in the Euro-zone, hence Blair has nothing to lose by helping Bush out.

Oh it suddenly all adds up... the USA will save itself from economic disaster by invading Iraq and replacing the government with one that will now sell oil in Dollars. At the same time it sends a terrifying message to the rest of OPEC not to follow Iraq's example and sell oil in Euros, despite Europe being OPECs biggest customer.

Whether you buy that theory or not is up to you, but personally I find it a lot more convincing than "The USA wants to take Iraq's oil".

[ahab]

I wouldn't classify that as conspiracy theroy, but:

*applause*

That's sorta what I thought when that was brought up earlier. For those of you that whine that the US is acting in it's own interests imagine what a US $/economic collapse could spell for the rest of the world.

Again, I wouldn't classify that as conspiracy theroy, more under the heading of "not so well publisized" as the US isn't telling a different story or not to believe it, more like they forgot to mention it. It is a good reason for the US to want Sadam out of power, but to fight a war, that's a real big stretch. If you simplify it down to "fighting the war because he isn't doing business the way we want" sounds pretty shitty.


Screw the oil! The US is sick of going to Canada for fishing, Iraq is the new fising resort!

[Kov]

Ha ha! SF, All that I wanted to say was posted above, BUT I have to add my very own little thing-

*applause*

And we want more! Next time you hatch a conspiracy theory, let me know.

[ahab]

Point that was brought up on another message board:

Saudia Arabia has ties to terrorists. Saudia Arabia happens to be one of the largest sources of American oil. When Iraq's oil begins going onto the open market the US can start buying Iraqi oil and not have such a dependence on Saudia Arabia and the US can start pressuring Saudia Arabia to behave reguarding terrorists without fear of reprocussions in it's oil supply.

[Cloud14044]

Fox, you didn't mention one way that the U.S. could take oil in the process of that long post.

Plus, we're not taking Iraq's oil. Wait and see how it turns out. We hardly get any oil from Iraq in the first place (Like, 5-10%, seriously).

[judemeyer]

The United States is taking Iraq's oil. No doubt about that.

The claim that any revenue will be used to rebuild Iraq is dubious.

That's like me not liking your father and burning down your house and killing one of your sisters to evict him. Then I empty part of your bank account so you can rebuild and refurnish.

It is morally repugnant.

The use of Iraqi's oil will lessen U.S. dependence on Saudi oil. But it will do nothing to reduce the rage against America in the bosom of the average politically astute Muslim.

[Alhazen Al-Rashid]

I disagree Boonfeck, i dont think we "looked the UN in the eyes and stared it down". I think rather we, made the UN look in one direction and snuck around the opposite direction

[Boondock Saint]

Well in truth jude its better then the US rebuilding Iraq with loans ...

And someone has to pay for rebuilding the infrastructure ... the US public already footed the bill for the war ...

No reason Iraqi money can't go to rebuilding their nation ... its not so bad and in the long run won't really matter.

Its what Iraq does after its rebuilt that will matter.

[Proctor]

I dunno. Its more like the UN threatened to punch the US in the face if the US did something, the US kind of laughed 'cause he's so much bigger than the UN, and did it anyway.

[Wilhelm]

the axis of greed (France, Germany, and Russia)

Actually, the axis of greed is the whole world. All countries act on self-interest, be it economical or political.

[Mattcore]

Think about it...
Actually,
Countries DO NOT have interests.

Please, explain this one, and disprove the entire basis of international politics.