[QatzelOk]

I have a feeling that your disapproval stems from an inability to actually respond to the bulk of my text.

I am not unable to respond to your texts in this thread. But I am unwilling.

This thread is about a check-list on how you can divorce yourself from capitalism while still living in liberal democracies.

It ISN'T about postmodernism. The only reason you decided to talk about pomo is because you had nothing on-subject to talk about. I presume.

What do you think of the check list? Was it not pomo enough/too pomo/just pomo enough? Did it make you feel more postmodern yourself?

Do you think the author was postmodern?

Or do you have anything useful to say about it?

[Pleb]

You have to admit you were nailed with the cars point. How can cars be incompatible with human nature if human nature is a malleable construct

I'll be forever in your debt for giving me phrases like malleable construct

[QatzelOk]

How can cars be incompatible with human nature if human nature is a malleable construct

Well, let's look at the components of human nature that aren't a malleable construct.

People weigh less than a thousand pounds.

People aren't made of metal.

People often walk from place to place.

Small people (children) like to play outside.

People need quiet and security to be happy.

(Have you clued into the reason why 2000-pound metal projectiles aren't that compatible with these natural traits of humans?)

That I need to explain this is a result of the stupidity of Modern rational thought. I could argue that Kirillov has represented that type of stupidity really well in this thread by feigning ignorance about how human nature is incompatible with cars in order to make a point about the author (me) being not-pofo-enough.

This is what actually kills 40,000 Americans a year in car accidents: Modern stupidity.

Likewise, the reason we allow self-interested and deceitful business interests control our information networks, and allow them to introduce new poisons into our food and water supplies. Modern stupidity. Whenever someone questions the wisdom of genetic mutation foods or pharamceutics in drinking water, some brainiac PR person says, "You're not postmodern enought" in a charismatic way, and Americans go on drinking poison for another few years.

(For some sanity, look at the OP's list of ways to divorce yourself from capitalism. It's surprisingly easy to make a difference and free yourself from the most hideous abuses of Modern capitalism and its stupidity.

[Pleb]

I started driving in September. It's hard to say how far I've sunk Bangladesh in that time, but I'm enjoying it. I can travel fifteen minutes to an hour to work in my car where it would have taken hours by foot. We're talking one to three hours. I'd arrive at work sweaty and hearty, but I'd have less time to read. I'd probably have to give up my well paid job altogether and grow vegetables for a living.

I'd have to leash myself to a small piece of land. My brain would stagnate and the world would be poorer for lack of my genius

[Unperson-K]

What do you think of the check list? Was it not pomo enough/too pomo/just pomo enough? Did it make you feel more postmodern yourself?

Do you think the author was postmodern?

Or do you have anything useful to say about it?

I did in fact reply to the list: I noted that most of what it proscribes are considered traditionally to be the foundations of the capitalist spirit. Others have made the same point. As a list for escaping capitalism, it profoundly fails. I would ask the author to do some real thinking about the history of capitalism and then hopefully she will be able to write something that will actually attack the foundations of capitalism.

In other words, she needs to write how we can re-valorise the present. Capitalism is a movement that deprives the present of value in order to create a material and concrete future. Therefore a better piece of advice for escaping capitalism would be "Live as if every moment were your last".

Well, let's look at the components of human nature that aren't a malleable construct.

People weigh less than a thousand pounds.

People aren't made of metal.

People often walk from place to place.

Small people (children) like to play outside.

People need quiet and security to be happy.

Ah so we have finally produced a definition of human nature.

Points 4 and 5 are culturally and historically specific as I predicted. They are both applicable only to modern western societies.

Points 1, 2 and 3 are thoroughly bizarre. Why is an object that weighs more than us incompatible with human nature? Is a house incompatible with human nature? A peasant hut made from purely natural materials presumably weighs more than a human: is it incompatible with human nature? And why are metal objects incompatible with human nature? We have been making metal objects for several thousands of years.

That I need to explain this is a result of the stupidity of Modern rational thought. I could argue that Kirillov has represented that type of stupidity really well in this thread by feigning ignorance about how human nature is incompatible with cars in order to make a point about the author (me) being not-pofo-enough.

More ad hominem covering a lack of argument. But I state again: your argument is reliant on an essentialised view of human nature, a view which holds no water in post-modern theory. A post-modernist would argue that human nature is a series of related constructs (inter-subjectivity) that are dependent on historical, cultural, linguistic and social structures. They are not inherent but have to be learned. Therefore to claim that cars can be compatible with human nature is perfectly in line with post-modern theory.

This is what actually kills 40,000 Americans a year in car accidents: Modern stupidity.

As I have said in other threads, I believe it is a good idea to point out that technological progress in general has negative aspects that in some cases more than outweigh the positive ones. But to posit an essentialised view of human nature in order to make this point is both laboured and unnecessary. It stinks of a desperation to be iconoclastic.

Likewise, the reason we allow self-interested and deceitful business interests control our information networks, and allow them to introduce new poisons into our food and water supplies. Modern stupidity. Whenever someone questions the wisdom of genetic mutation foods or pharamceutics in drinking water, some brainiac PR person says, "You're not postmodern enought" in a charismatic way, and Americans go on drinking poison for another few years.

Ah, you think I am charismatic. I am touched.

Otherwise see above. I am certainly interested in questioning the abuses perpetrated by modernist systems and their glorification of technological progress. However, I am interested in doing this in a way that does not repeat the ideological mistakes of other modernist discourses. I am interested in the plurality of discourse, not in promoting one discourse to the level of Truth by claiming that my discourse is closer to what is human.

[CessnaAgWagon]

As an anti-feminist capitalist, I work harder every day to roll back Liberalism. I fight it.......hard.

[Captain Sam]

As an anti-feminist capitalist, I work harder every day to roll back Liberalism. I fight it.......hard.

Are you a troll? If not, go say hi in the Lobby.

[stalker]

A well educated global population of half a billion with vast nature reservations, localized food production, advanced medicines and electronic communications is more than enough to drive technological progress, the end result of which is Communism.

I disagree with Qatz in that while capitalism isn't wrong per se, it unnecessarily unleashes the worst selfish and rapacious desires, under the euphemism of consumerism. Capitalism should remain...it is social values under which it operates that must be transformed.

[Salve]

How do you free your life from capitalism?

Dear Ms. Communicate,
As an anti-capitalist feminist... I try to spend a single day not using anything made in China, but it's impossible!

Come on now, we all know China is communist

• Don't buy new, ever.

Never? Second-hand food, toilet roll...? Yuck.

• Buy used

It can be a thousand times removed from its original owner, if the product was made with 'exploited' labour when it was brand new it was still made with exploited labour by the time it reached its thousandth owner.

• Shop at independent proprietors/businesses as much as possible. Remove your spending dollar from chains like Malwart, Cramazon/Crapters, Crudson's Bayou, Sneers, Canadian Tired, etc.

I never understand people who spout stuff like this. How is a smalltime business any less capitalist than a big one? Capitalism allows anybody to accumalate personal wealth, if anything you're just supporting capitalism with this

• Find paid work at NGOs, non-profits, starting your own business venture or working for a sole-proprietor.

Hello, capitalism!

• Work for organizations like the public school board, universities, colleges, trade schools, hospitals, community health organizations, community legal organizations.

These aren't privately owned?


That article was humorously hypocritic.

[Ombrageux]

Study hard

I never understood this part of the equation. I studied my ass off and am not making shit... or is that punishment for choosing a humanities?

[Dr House]

is that punishment for choosing a humanities?

Yes.

-Dr House

[Ombrageux]

Sucks. Why must the learned ignoramuses make all the money? Most of the people I know who make money, engineers, doctors, marketers whatever, really and truly don't know shit outside their very specific field (whether or not they no that).

[Dan]

Because those people are useful and have valuable skills. A man who knows a lot, but can't really do anything isn't of much use.

[Ombrageux]

The person that creates the marketing campaign that 'creates' demand for some unnecessary production is not useful, the people who exploits loopholes in the law to allow rich people to doge it is not useful, the person who manages to turn crap into a status symbol is not useful (I've worked in a store which sold 'classy' wooden chairs for 6 grand).

If all they do is contribute to the rat race they might as well be dead.

[stalker]

It's the logic of the herd when given freedom, unfortunately. The hoi polloi have proved their moral and spiritual bankruptcy by pursuing conumerism at all costs (raping the planet, stripping humanity of all dignity, etc) when given the freedom to do so, and as such they don't deserve freedom.

[NYYS]

The person that creates the marketing campaign that 'creates' demand for some unnecessary production is not useful, the people who exploits loopholes in the law to allow rich people to doge it is not useful, the person who manages to turn crap into a status symbol is not useful (I've worked in a store which sold 'classy' wooden chairs for 6 grand).

They're useful to someone and that's all that matters.

[Goranhammer]

Sucks. Why must the learned ignoramuses make all the money? Most of the people I know who make money, engineers, doctors, marketers whatever, really and truly don't know shit outside their very specific field (whether or not they no that).

Read up on the benefits of absolute/comparative advantage and then you'll get it.

[CessnaAgWagon]

"Are you a troll? If not, go say hi in the Lobby."

Are you? I'm a 50-year-old White male, Catholic, Republican, gun-owner, retired-US-military, capitalist and a strong supporter of GEORGE W. BUSH. And I love my country, to boot. Hard to believe, eh?

Judging from what little I know about you, I'd say that yes, you probably consider anyone who believes what I do to be a troll, Nazi, axe-murderer, and/or nuclear-armed B52 pilot with a bright, shiney grin. I thought a troll was someone who didn't believe in what he/she posted, but just posted out of fiendish delight. Nope. I believe what I say, Podna.

[Ombrageux]

They're useful to someone and that's all that matters.

No, if we're going to get technical, they can convince people have money to part with that money. The rest is contingent.

[stalker]

Are you? I'm a 50-year-old White male , Catholic , Republican , gun-owner , retired-US-military , capitalist and a strong supporter of GEORGE W. BUSH . And I love my country, to boot . Hard to believe, eh?