[Gothmog]

-Another mistake, but the detruction of RAF wouldn´t
-allow a decisive defeat for the British.

Yes it would. The Germans were thinking of crossing the channel to invade Brtain in an amphibian attack, but it was not possible with the RAF patrolling the channel, as it would have destroyed every boat going to Britain before they could even reach the British coast. So hitler decided to start an air battle to destroy the RAF, which they couldn't accomplish. Britain was a key element, with Britain under the Germans, all Europe would have been lost, and the USA would have to wage a war on two fronts, with Germnay on one side by the Atlantic, and Japan on the Pacific. Also, operation overlord wouldn't have taken place, it would be impossible to cross the Atlantic to stage an amphibian attack on Britain.

-My point is that, even if Germany destroyed the RAF (which was very
-difficult to acomplish, because the British wer thinking on redeploying
-their remaining fighters in the North, outside the range of German
-fighters, if things went too bad) they still woudn´t have enough ships
-to cross the channel, to keep the troops supplied and to escort the
-transports. They would be subjected to a massive attack by the Home
-Fleet and by the Bomber command and the Coastal command. The
-result would be a carnage, with massive losses for both sides. Even
-if they managed to cross the Channel, there would be a protracted
-guerilla war, and they would find their Stalingrad in London. It would
-be possible that an attempt to subdue England in 1940 could result
-in a earlier defeat for Germany.

I think that it was not a mistake declaring war to the USSR, the mistake was not taking Moscow while they had the chance. Because Hitler decided to take oil fields in the Caucasus before taking Moscow, so the winter caught them.

-Germany suffered 70% of her losses in East Front. Wasn´t it a mistake?

[Generalissimo Talonius]

Germany suffered 70% of her losses in East Front. Wasn´t it a mistake?

First and foremost : Germany is always referred to in the male form. "Germany suffered 70% of his sses in East Front. ". It is also reffered to as "Der Vaterland" by those who know their facts. Russia is a girl ; Germany is a man ( wierd I know, but formality ) .

And I think you're right : German commanders should not have pushed so hard, especially at Stalingrad. If it wern't for the blunder at Stalingrad, Germany might well have won the Eastern Front. They just needed to retreat strategically and they would have beaten the Russians easily ( Stalin wasn't so great at that retreating either, which is why Russia probably lost more men than they needed. It was probably an honest mistake though ).

[Siberian Fox]

If it wern't for the blunder at Stalingrad, Germany might well have won the Eastern Front. They just needed to retreat strategically and they would have beaten the Russians easily

What evidence do you have to support that comment? Especially given that the balence of production was slipping to the USSR's advantage with every day that passed.

Realistically, post winter 1941/2 is that anything that Germany could have done to win the war?

[Ignominious]

Quote:
Allowing the Vichy government to exist.


Actually, the Vichy government was a puppet regime run by Belrin. SS officials pranced around the streets of Marseille, having a drink with French officers who helped bring French jews to concentration camps.cThe Vichy government was more of a sub-hiring of thugs. It was a very intelligent thing to do.

Petain sold his country to the Germans, de Gaulle saved it. Of course, I could be wrong, what do you think Dri?

By allowing the Vichy government to exist there was a lacking German military presence in North west Africa. The Americans landed there in 42 and then they attacked the underbelly of Italy and the Vichy mainland.

I say that the only smart thing was that the Germans might have had more politcal control of the French people, by giving them moral by saying that their nation was an ally of Germany.

[Proctor]

First and foremost : Germany is always referred to in the male form. "Germany suffered 70% of his sses in East Front. ". It is also reffered to as "Der Vaterland" by those who know their facts. Russia is a girl ; Germany is a man ( wierd I know, but formality ) .

Thats not actually always the case. Germany as you say is normally portrayed as a man, but not always. Same as Russia is normally a woman, but not always. I have never seen France as a man, and Britain seems to be almost interchangable.

[CasX]

German mistakes? Hitler.

[Switters]

Germany's biggest mistake was killing all those people for no particular reason. Not only did they get bad karma, but they wasted a lot of valuable resources because for some reason they really had to kill those Jews quick.

[Demosthenes]

Hitler's mistakes were vast. The most damaging ones were mistakes that were fundamental to the Nazi's rise to power and indeed to Hitler's own rise within the Nazi party. These mistakes made the regime destined to fail.

Anti-Semitism: This propelled Hitler to power. As we all know he was able to capitalize on German resentment over the treaty of Vesailles, among other things, and parlay that into his own popularity. The problem became that once interrment of Jews wasn't enough and the killing began he started to loose the very minds which had given him such a technological advantage early on.

Another factor was Hitler's tendancy to divide his subordinates. He often issued conflicting orders to them in hopes of keeping their power base weak. A very paranoid man he greatly feared (and maybe rightly so) being overthrown by the same types of methods he himself used to obtain power. This weakening of the middle and upper parts of the power structure was a contributing factor that led to the regime's downfall.

I am being intentionally general as the information I'm relating comes from a book I read some time ago appropriately entitled Hitler's Mistakes by Ronald Lewin. If you require more specifics, I'll have to dig the book back out again.

[Boondock Saint]

Without anti-semitism and its scapegoat I dont see how Hitler would have come to power.

Perhaps this thread should be 'Nazi-Germany's big mistakes'.

Here is my list.

1- Two engine medium range bomber and the lack of four engine long range bombers.

2- Invading/declaring war against the USSR.

3- As others have said, allowing Japan to attack the US.

4- Not improving and upgrading general infantry rifles.

Well, thats about it right now.

[Adrien]

Hitler (and more generally the leaders of the country, army and all) should have learned their history lessons, as some of their mistakes were in it and caused defeats to other powers:

-Russian Winter episode: Napoleon.
-Not improving their rifles enough (i don't know much about it, but if Boondock says it): Napoleon too.
-Having two battle fronts: World War I.

But of course, there are more important mistakes.

[Demosthenes]

Hitler would not have come to power without anti-semitism, I agree. What I was trying (perhaps poorly) to illustrate were a couple of his mistakes that were fundamental, not military. Mistakes that, while necesary for his rise to power, turned into liabilities and cost him everything. Once again according to the book I cited earlier.

[Wilhelm]

One military mistake also had to do with those fundamental mistakes. In the attack onn Normandy, no one was allowed to command the Panzer division there except for the Fuhrer himself. But nobody dared wake the Fuhrer. So the officers in Normandy were afraid they would be killed if they took control of the divisions. Had those divisions come into action...I bet I'd be looking at a flag with a swastika accross the street.

[Demosthenes]

Ah you've grasped my point exactly!

[Din]

Germany/Hitler's biggest screw ups
Hitler thought he was a great general at the end of 1941 after operation barbarossa had been so successful (10 miles outside of moscow would seem a succes in his eyes) the fact that he controled the armour was the ultimate downfall in the wermacht as if hitler was asleep when someone attacked (operation ring for example) no-one would wake him to tell him the situation so that he could relase the panzer korps.

Rommel DID beat monty at El Alamein twice as there was ultimately 4 battles (i think it was 3 allied attempts over two weeks and one attempt by Romell which ultimately killed the afrika korps)

One intresting story abut the afrika corps and the 8th army on monty's extreme left flank were two generals, one night they contacted each other via radio, and they agreed to a gentleman's war, ever day at 5:00p.m the war just shut down, one night a german soldier had stole a british supply truck, the general ordered that he took it back and apologize as it was after 5:00p.m, but others had already taken the supplies off the truck, the general knew what would happen. The next day TWO of his supply trucks were missing.

[Efrem Da King]

PAH Kursk was germanys greatest mistake.

[Din]

actually i would call stalingrad germanys biggest mistake as krusk was the last despartate attempt to break the russian advance