[Xbow]

Too expensive but still Israel can expect to start inducting these vessels next year and there is always the choice to overhaul the older boats to equip AIP.

I agree, and I am sure that will be what happens. And isn't it amazing that AIP is essentially an old technology that dates back to 1867 & Narcís Monturiol i Estarriol's peroxide powered anaerobic or air independent steam engine? But I believe that one or possibly two of those Dolphins already have a retrofitted AIP system installed. (I think the Israelis want 3 upgraded Dolphins). In my book the key strength of the 212's over the Dolphins is the +700 meter test depth. The Dolphins have a test depth of ~ 350 meters. But the Dolphins are quiet enough to bamboozle any ASW net installed by any Muslim state. The only way to get them is to have surface ships and dunking helicopters bang away at them with active sonar at variable depths with fixed and towed arrays.

[Typhoon]

And isn't it amazing that AIP is essentially an old technology that dates back to 1867 & Narcís Monturiol i Estarriol's peroxide powered anaerobic or air independent steam engine?

Indeed or back to 1816 for the Stirling engine, another AIP solution. Perhaps more remarkable is that AIP solutions could replace nuclear power in future boomers, the lack of noisy pumps being very attactive.

Russia’s fifth-generation strategic and attack submarines will most likely be non-nuclear-powered, more compact and less “visible,” a senior designer at the Rubin design bureau said Monday.

http://defencerussia.wordpress.com/2013 ... ubmarines/

[Xbow]

Indeed or back to 1816 for the Stirling engine, another AIP solution. Perhaps more remarkable is that AIP solutions could replace nuclear power in future boomers, the lack of noisy pumps being very attactive.

I agree and once again your knowledge of the subject material is clear. I am absolutely sure you know that the US Navy hired several AIP subs (Gotland-class I believe) of the Swedish navy to harass a carrier battle group and its LA class attack boat screen somewhere off the coast of southern California (San Diego). The word is that the Gotland's played hell with the task force and even ran successful and completely undetected attacks in shallow water. Only dunking helicopters using active sonar in conjunction with surface ships using active sonars was even remotely successful in detecting the Gotland's before they closed to their firing positions 20 miles from their targets.

It would be the same if the technology were applied to a boomer the size of an Ohio class submarine. An AIP system with the power density to provide: +20,000nm range, +30 knot underwater speed, a month's under water endurance at depth. This would be the present state of the technology and because there would be no reactor growl be almost undetectable. Not to mention that the mass saved by not having a heavy reactor could be applied to a heavier pressure hull or even a double hull where the outer hull serves as spaced armor (as in the Oscar II). However, refueling would once again be a concern but it would be a simple thing to develop underwater refueling capability that would resemble aerial refueling. And I would wager that the overall cost of construction and operation would be less than for an Ohio class submarine. And no messy clean up and eternal storage of spent reactors and fuel rods would be necessary.

When one considers that the test depth for German 212 submarines is +700 meters and the design depth is twice the test depth we have a submarine that can in combat when test depth regulations for operations are removed dive to and operate at 1400 meters or 4550 feet. The maximum operating depth of the sub is probably classified but 5000ft or 1540 meters would be a passable guess. So it seems we have come full circle.