[dcomplex]

Maybe the Arabs should go back to their home on Tatooine.

[abu_rashid]

Arabs have been living in the area of Palestine with an unbroken history of about 2500 years.

The vast majority of 'Israelis' have left good homes in comfortable Western countries, to come and push people into refugee camps.... could any human being with an atom's weight of decency in their body justify this???

[dcomplex]

That is totally false. The Arabs did not even leave the Peninsula until the 7th century, and most Israelis actually come from the Arab world, fleeing persecution no less.

[abu_rashid]

That is totally false. The Arabs did not even leave the Peninsula until the 7th century,

You clearly have no clue about the history of the region.

Nabataean Arabs were living in the Naqab desert since about 500 B.C.E.

King Haritha (Aretas) is mentioned in the OT (2 Maccabees 5:8)

Other Arabs like the Ghassanids moved into the region about 1700 years ago. No other people have lived in the region as long as the Arabs.

Arabia Petraea:


Palmyrene Empire 271 C.E:

and most Israelis actually come from the Arab world, fleeing persecution no less.

Jews lived fine in the Arab world, until they began attacking Arab villages in Palestine and overrunning the country. What else did they expect? Sweets and rose petals?

[wat0n]

Jews lived fine in the Arab world, until they began attacking Arab villages in Palestine and overrunning the country. What else did they expect? Sweets and rose petals?

If by "fine" you mean "living as second-class citizens under today's understanding of the term because they were dhimmis", sure. For the rest of us, that is not actually fine.

As for the origin of Israeli Jews, it should be noted that most didn't immigrate from the West, and neither did their ancestors. Sephardic, Mizrahi and African Jews outnumber Ashkenazi Jews and even among the Ashkenazi Jews there are some who lived in the former USSR, which was not actually Western.

[redcarpet]

The vast majority of them aren't even Americans, actually.

Doesn't matter where most are from outside Israel. As a general point I think it's fair to say they're being silly complaining about moving to a town and then complaining about rockets fired at/near them (as if it's new) ad have the hypocritical gall to cheer missiles fired into Gaza.

[abu_rashid]

If by "fine" you mean "living as second-class citizens under today's understanding of the term because they were dhimmis", sure. For the rest of us, that is not actually fine.

They lived far better than they did in Christian Europe, and far better than any Muslim lived in a non-Muslim country. The degree of tolerance they experienced was unheard of in those times. Even up until they began their Zionist shenanigans, they were living quite well in most Muslim lands. They are the ones who spoiled this relationship, not the Muslims. When the Catholics overran Andalus and ended up carrying out their ethnic cleansing of all Jews & Muslims, who sent ships to rescue the Jews? Who allowed them to settle in their lands?

As for the origin of Israeli Jews, it should be noted that most didn't immigrate from the West, and neither did their ancestors. Sephardic, Mizrahi and African Jews outnumber Ashkenazi Jews and even among the Ashkenazi Jews there are some who lived in the former USSR, which was not actually Western.

About 50% of Jews occupying Palestine are Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews are also Western Jews. And Russia is most certainly Western in this context.

Either way, they have no traceable connection to the land. And their arrival there is at the expense of people who do have a connection to the land.

So in effect, anyone who accepts the idea of Zionism, accepts expelling people from their homes, and forcing them into refugee camps, so other people can leave good comfortable homes half way around the world and come and squat in their land. The reality of this is inescapable.

[wat0n]

They lived far better than they did in Christian Europe, and far better than any Muslim lived in a non-Muslim country. The degree of tolerance they experienced was unheard of in those times. Even up until they began their Zionist shenanigans, they were living quite well in most Muslim lands. They are the ones who spoiled this relationship, not the Muslims. When the Catholics overran Andalus and ended up carrying out their ethnic cleansing of all Jews & Muslims, who sent ships to rescue the Jews? Who allowed them to settle in their lands?

The status of Jews in Europe clearly improved from the Englightenment onwards, whereas their status in the Muslim World remained basically the same.

In particular, by the 19th century the Europeans were actually lecturing the Muslim regimes about religious tolerance rather than the other way around.

About 50% of Jews occupying Palestine are Ashkenazi. Sephardic Jews are also Western Jews. And Russia is most certainly Western in this context.

Sephardi Jews went mainly to Turkey and the Islamic World after the Spanish expelled them in 1492, as you suggested above. What are you talking about?

Either way, they have no traceable connection to the land. And their arrival there is at the expense of people who do have a connection to the land.

Genetic research and migratory history would seem to disagree.

[KlassWar]

Sephardic Jews were Western jews... In the sixteenth century. Most of them resettled in the Maghrib and the Levant fleeing Catholic persecution, and by and large most Sephardis have been Magrebi or Levantine since ('cept for those that are French, Greek or Italian).

[wat0n]

Furthermore, most lived under Islamic rule in Spain during the Middle Ages as well.

[Gletkin]

The Sephardim were "born" in medieval Islamic Spain.
But under the Christian "Reconquista" those who wanted to stay Jewish had to follow the Muslim Iberians into exile in Morocco and Tunisia.
That was over 500 years ago. By now it seems to me that despite their Spanish birth, they have more in common with western North Africa. Even then, the Spain they were "born" into was ruled by North African culture at the time.