[skinster]

How do you expect civilians of Gaza to police themselves while in an open-air prison?

[wat0n]

The civilian population would probably have an easier time if those who rule over it didn't antagonize both of its neighbors, i.e. Israel and Egypt.

[skinster]

Hamas may be doing a shitty job of governing Gaza, but Israel remains the ruler there.

[wat0n]

A ruler that allows Palestinians to build tunnels reaching into its territory? Those tunnels were unheard of back when Israel actually did rule Gaza.

No, this is just an attempt to excuse rocket attacks against Israeli civilians like above.

[skinster]

[anarchist23]

The Israelis are stealing land from the West Bank. For years and years the Israelis said they couldn't do business with the Palestinians while Yassa Arafat was in power. Now that he is dead the Israelis are making lame excuses again and still appropriating land. The Israeli leadership cannot be trusted as they lie and lie.

[layman]

So I guess stage 5 is peace?

Lets face it, that map was never going to work. The British said as much at the time which is why we would approve the UN plan or even let UN personel inside.

[danholo]

So I guess stage 5 is peace?

Lets face it, that map was never going to work. The British said as much at the time which is why we would approve the UN plan or even let UN personel inside.

Stage 5 is capitulation and unconditional surrender. One side needs to forgo nationalism/be eradicated for the conflict to end. Or for both people to become hippie liberals who have no values.

[layman]

One side needs to forgo nationalism/be eradicated for the conflict to end.

I think it is pretty clear who will win in the longer term. An Arab Palestine is no longer feasible, partly from design.

So the question is just how bloodless the Israeli cleansing can be. How many, if any, Arabs there be absorbed as "Israeli Arabs" or is the Palestinian revolutionary identity going to be around forever.

[wat0n]

So I guess stage 5 is peace?

Lets face it, that map was never going to work. The British said as much at the time which is why we would approve the UN plan or even let UN personel inside.

Stage 5 was leaving Gaza. Stage 6 will probably be removing settlements east of the WB barrier.

Of course, an apologist for the murder of Jewish civilians like anarchist23 won't mention the withdrawal from Gaza, and in fact he was careful to limit his claims to the West Bank.

[redcarpet]

They had their best chance before WW2, say with the British Peel Commission on Palestine. They would have been allowed way more than compared to today or the UN 1947 Partition Plan. But no, their self-appointed Nazi leader said no.

[pugsville]

He was not self appointed.

he was appointed by the Jewish Zionist British high commissioner , came third in the election.

[jessupjonesjnr87]

Well at least the kid isn't indiscriminately shelling her neighbourhood or spraying it with raw sewerage.

[wat0n]

He was not self appointed.

he was appointed by the Jewish Zionist British high commissioner , came third in the election.

What election? The post was traditionally appointed by the government since Ottoman times.

[skinster]

The Israeli leadership cannot be trusted as they lie and lie.

Indeed, and so it goes. You think the lies and arrogance would diminish somewhat given how nowadays, not everyone believes the Zionist version of events, but nope, no joy. The arrogance very much remains in these forums. And that, which Bibi is exhibiting towards his boss in Washington at the moment is quite amusing to see, too.

Still, there's still BDS and it's having a significant effect, especially so since the murder of over 2000 people in Gaza last summer. BDS is probably all we can count on at this stage, given our governments in the West are still very much in the rectum of the American and Israeli governments. I am hopeful BDS is what will end apartheid in Israel/Palestine.




On a related topic, this exhibition is on downtown NYC until this Thursday. It has pictures of Palestinians fleeing their villages in fear of Zionist forces who were taking over their land. There are images of Palestinians literally running into the sea.

[wat0n]

Indeed, and so it goes. You think the lies and arrogance would diminish somewhat given how nowadays, not everyone believes the Zionist version of events, but nope, no joy. The arrogance very much remains in these forums. And that, which Bibi is exhibiting towards his boss in Washington at the moment is quite amusing to see, too.

Arrogance such as what, exactly? Refusing to acknowledge facts, such as the fact that Israel doesn't rule over Gaza?

Still, there's still BDS and it's having a significant effect, especially so since the murder of over 2000 people in Gaza last summer. BDS is probably all we can count on at this stage, given our governments in the West are still very much in the rectum of the American and Israeli governments. I am hopeful BDS is what will end apartheid in Israel/Palestine.

How has it affected Israeli economic growth? If the effect has been so significant, I'm sure you can provide a figure.

On a related topic, this exhibition is on downtown NYC until this Thursday. It has pictures of Palestinians fleeing their villages in fear of Zionist forces who were taking over their land. There are images of Palestinians literally running into the sea.

Indeed, they were fleeing because they thought they'd be treated like Arab forces treated Jews whenever they managed to conquer Jewish Kibbutzim and neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

[skinster]

Israel has Gaza occupied and blockaded. Israel controls the air and sea, along with what goes in and out. You can continue to disagree with who controls Gaza if you wish but I don't agree with you.

I'm not here to prove the effects of BDS, you can choose to believe it's having no effect if you wish. Just last week Israel and Canada signed something agreeing to fight BDS together. I wonder why this is happening if BDS is ineffective. Feel free to continue to believe it's having no effect if you wish, I don't agree with you.

Indeed, they were fleeing because they thought they'd be treated like Arab forces treated Jews whenever they managed to conquer Jewish Kibbutzim and neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

They were fleeing Zionist militias. At least we're at a point now where Zionists at least admit that there were Palestinians living there and fled their land. That's some progress.

[QatzelOk]

So the question is just how bloodless the Israeli cleansing can be. How many, if any, Arabs there be absorbed as "Israeli Arabs" or is the Palestinian revolutionary identity going to be around forever.

A racially-themed aircraft carrier is not likely to respect the locals it destroys.

[wat0n]

Israel has Gaza occupied and blockaded. Israel controls the air and sea, along with what goes in and out. You can continue to disagree with who controls Gaza if you wish but I don't agree with you.

What you describe is called a blockade, not an occupation. Ruling over a region (like a belligerent occupier does) encompasses much more than just border controls.

But even that premise that Israel decides what goes into Gaza (legally) is incorrect. After all, Israel doesn't control all of Gaza's borders - it doesn't have the ability to decide what happens in the crossing at the Egyptian border in Rafah, something that was inarguably proven when Morsi allowed the border crossing to re-open in 2011, against Israeli wishes.

I'm not here to prove the effects of BDS, you can choose to believe it's having no effect if you wish. Just last week Israel and Canada signed something agreeing to fight BDS together. I wonder why this is happening if BDS is ineffective. Feel free to continue to believe it's having no effect if you wish, I don't agree with you.

If it were having a significant effect, it would be seen in Israeli economic data. This isn't the case, Israeli and Canadian deals (basically publicity stunts) notwithstanding.

They were fleeing Zionist militias. At least we're at a point now where Zionists at least admit that there were Palestinians living there and fled their land. That's some progress.

The classical Zionist narrative of the Palestinian exodus 1948 is that Palestinians fled their homes as a result of Arab propaganda.

The truth is that many, if not most, Palestinians did in fact flee, not out of an Arab propaganda campaign but out of fear of the Israelis. And it is also true that many were expelled, though there was no political decision among the Israelis to that effect, even if some did want to expel them all.

The weird thing is, it is not really in dispute by anyone that the Jews who, before the war, lived in areas that ended under Arab (mainly, Jordanian) control were also expelled or fled yet no one really cares about them or their lost property. Yet it seems that, for some, only the Arabs who lost their homes matter when analyzing the 1948 war.

[danholo]

They were fleeing Zionist militias. At least we're at a point now where Zionists at least admit that there were Palestinians living there and fled their land. That's some progress.

Like wat0n said, it is unwise to falsely assume the ignorance of others.