[Puffer Fish]

There has been a significant decrease in the percentage of white males who have attended college in the U.S. It went from 49 percent in 2011 to 40 percent in 2022.
(source here)

The overall college enrollment rate of 18 to 24 year olds was 38 percent in 2021.
It was 41 percent in 2010.
38 percent of whites between the ages of 18 to 24 were enrolled in college in 2021.
33 percent for Hispanic males.
(source here)

In 2023, men made up 42 percent of all 18- to 24-year-old college students, down from 47 percent in 2011.
(source here)

related thread: Why fewer Americans are going to college (in Health & Education section, July 18, 2023)


The reduction in college students is largely being led by men, with 1 million fewer young men in college and just 0.2 million fewer young women, in 2023 compared to 2011.
(source here)


American men are opting out of the workforce at unforeseen rates.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics found only 89 percent of working age men have a job or are actively looking for work. In 1950, that number was at 97 percent.
In the early 1950s around 96 percent of working age American men between the ages of 25 and 54 were working in full or part-time jobs. Now it has gone down to 86 percent.

And as fewer men financially support themselves, there are long-reaching economic and societal implications, experts say.
"The U.S. has a major issue of prime-age men giving up and permanently exiting the labor force," Robin Brooks, a senior fellow policy research firm the Brookings Institution and the former chief economist at IIF, wrote. "What's striking about this is that it doesn't get talked about at all, not in the mainstream media and not by economists, even though this obviously feeds political radicalization."

The 2008 Great Recession saw male employment decline from 88 to just 80.6 percent, and the rate has never been able to get higher than 86.7 percent since then.

During the coronavirus pandemic in 2020 it temporarily fell to 78 percent.

Women now outnumber men in college attendance, in a ratio of roughly 60 to 40 percent.​

Rising Number of Men Don't Want to Work, Suzanne Blake, Newsweek, May 6, 2024

Part of this may be due to a growingly larger amount of jobs in the economy being the types of jobs that women traditionally did, as the economy has transformed more into the service sector.

The main exception to that would be tech and computer programming, but the entire tech industry in the U.S. employs 5.2 million workers, which accounts for only 3 percent of the total jobs.

[Puffer Fish]

from another article:

A millennial who went to college in his 30s when his career stalled says his Bachelor's degree is 'worthless' and that he's been looking for a job for 3 years

In 2015, at age 34, Dan Colflesh decided to quit his job in the customer service industry and pursue a college degree.

"I worked my way up in a few companies, but I always hit a roadblock in promotions because I didn't have a college education."

By 2021, he earned an associate degree in physics from a community college in Massachusetts and a Bachelor's in political science from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. But the additional education hasn't helped him much in the job market and saddled him with student loans.

"No one will hire me," he said. "My Bachelor's degree is pretty much worthless."

Colflesh said he's been looking for work over the last few years and applied to more than 100 jobs. But he said there have been stretches where he's felt "defeated," during which he paused his search for a few months at a time.
While the US male unemployment rate is low when compared to past decades, Colflesh is among the men who have struggled to find work -- or have stopped looking altogether. In 1950, about 97% of American men between the ages of 25 and 54 had a job or were actively looking for work, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. As of January, that figure had fallen to about 89%.

In recent decades, it's become more difficult to land a high-paying job without a college degree.

"Once you could have a Bachelor's degree in just about anything and get some kind of good-paying job," he said. "Now you have to have an insane amount of experience."

He said this made it challenging to land a job with his political science degree, but that he didn't want to take out more student debt to pursue graduate school. So he decided to plow ahead on his job hunt, expanding his search and tweaking his application strategies. He tried tailoring his resumes and cover letters for each employer and applied to some jobs that didn't require a degree, but he said he still had little luck.

He said that growing up in the Appalachian region of the US, an area that has struggled economically in recent decades, has been an additional obstacle.

Colflesh said that he, his fiance, and his daughter live with his future mother-in-law in Massachusetts and that the two women have been paying the bills.​

A millennial who went to college in his 30s when his career stalled says his Bachelor's degree is 'worthless' and that he's been looking for a job for 3 years, Jacob Zinkula, Business Insider, May 4, 2024


I think one of the things this demonstrates is that college degrees are really mostly only more valuable in bigger city areas that have more wealth.

I looked up this man's "LinkedIn" profile and it lists his location as Holyoke, Massachusetts. Holyoke is a suburb of Springfield, Massachusetts, and is not far from Amherst, where the article says he went to university.

Springfield is more in the western side of the state. It would be a one and a half hour drive to Boston, or Albany in the opposite direction, or a one hour and 15 minute drive to New Haven Connecticut. Better job opportunities do exist in those cities, but still those jobs are not so easy to get for outsiders without connections. None of these three closest big cities are extremely wealthy, and this whole surrounding area has been in a little bit of economic decline.

Holyoke is a 1 hour and 40 minute drive away from New York City.

One thing to point out is that coming from the Appalachian region might be one factor in why it is more difficult for him to get a job. Lots of people in the Northeast region perceive people who have an Appalachian southern speech accent as being less intelligent and less "cultured". And to a certain extent there may be a little bit of truth to that, when it comes to the gene pool. But still, I am sure that his accent is not too heavy, and especially so if he is doing a job interview, one would probably try to avoid it.

[Puffer Fish]

"According to the latest report from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center ...
The report, released today, found that undergraduate enrollment grew 1.2 percent in fall 2023 compared to the prior year, adding roughly 176,000 students to college enrollment rolls nationally.
Enrollment at [community colleges] increased 2.6 percent, a gain of about 118,000 students. Four-year institutions had an increase of less than 0.6 percent in comparison."

source: Enrollments Rise After Pandemic-Related Declines Undergraduate enrollment is up again, according to new data, Sara Weissman, insidehighered.com, January 24, 2024

[Fasces]

You made a post laying out facts without telling anyone 'why' these facts are important.

[Puffer Fish]

You made a post laying out facts without telling anyone 'why' these facts are important.

Are you saying you are unable to see any obvious reasons why these facts may be important?

I think it's obvious they carry some big political implications, on several issues. The economy, education policy, whether society should be encouraging more people to go to college.

Even gender issues, and if we are looking for factors to explain why the birthrates are dropping in the U.S. and the white middle class is disappearing, why marriage rates continue to decrease, and then think about the impact all that will have.

[Fasces]

Are you saying you are unable to see any obvious reasons why these facts may be important?

Are you saying you're too cowardly to explicitly voice them, and instead want to hide behind 'that's not what I meant?'

Fine - I think you're worried that as many white males are getting into college as there are. I think you believe white males are very dangerous, and that 0% of white males should be attending college - much less than 40%.

[Rancid]

I'm waiting to see how @Puffer Fish blames this on black people, immigrants, and women.

[Puffer Fish]

Are you saying you're too cowardly to explicitly voice them, and instead want to hide behind 'that's not what I meant?'

If you suspect me of having a less-than-open reason for why these facts are important, why don't you just state your suspicion about what you think my reason may have been for posting this information.

I will tell you whether it is true.

Just because I post statistics involving race doesn't mean you always have to suspect me of ulterior motives.

I don't feel any reason to "hold back" in this particular thread. I'll say it how it is.

[Rancid]

Just because I post statistics involving race doesn't mean you always have to suspect me of ulterior motives.

There's a pattern of you posting a certainly type of statistic or news story. It's only natural to start to suspect you have ulterior motives.

[Fasces]

I'm not going to play "Guess why you care" @Puffer Fish. It is much easier for you to just come out and say it.

I don't feel any reason to "hold back" in this particular thread. I'll say it how it is.

Then say it.

[RealPolitic]

@Puffer Fish

White males who opt not to go to college in field that is in demand and pays well or learn a trade that is in demand and pays well are doing themselves a huge dis-service. I think these white males who make this choice are choosing unwisely. But its their own fault. They made the choice not to go to and learn something valuable to society. Nobody is to blame but those white males that made that choice.

You can't have a victim mentality where you feel the world owes you. Its ironic to have to say this to white males given that they were the ones who used to say this all the time to others. But, hey, nobody is going to feel sorry for them, you can't have a victim mentality, white males have to take ownership of their own lives and learn to adapt and overcome instead of throwing a pity party for themselves. They just have to stop whining, get out there, work hard, and compete like everybody else. Good things come to people who study and work hard.

[Puffer Fish]

White males who opt not to go to college in field that is in demand and pays well or learn a trade that is in demand and pays well are doing themselves a huge dis-service. ... But its their own fault.

I think the problem is there is a decreasing number of fields that are very "in demand".

When the number of good options narrows, it's no surprise that the percentage of people who find their way into good options will decrease.
(And it becomes less likely that people will find something that is a good "fit" to their unique temperaments, interests and abilities)

The public at large also seems to be woefully ignorant about what the economic reality is. A huge number of career fields that the public believes are "in demand" are actually hard to get into and make a good paying career out of. This especially includes many of the so-called "tech" jobs.

Just one other thread that touches on that: STEM path for students is like a scam (30 Jan 2024)

[RealPolitic]

@Puffer Fish

Puffer, I can assure you that STEM degrees from properly accredited universities are no scam. STEM degrees are worth it but you have to study hard and they do pay well. You have to make your own opportunities and make things happen for yourself. Nobody is going to do anything for your or bring you jobs. You have to go the jobs and show them you are worth hiring. Or, start your own business and create your own job. Having a pity party or a victim mentality isn't going to get you where you want to be. Whether you are a business owner or an employee seeking a job, you have to work hard to get work and work hard to keep work. No easy way out or any shortcuts.

[Rancid]

What is the concern of this demographic not going to college? Why is it more of a concern than other demographics not going to college?

[MistyTiger]

Should people be going to college? So many graduate with debt. Then there's the struggle to get started in that first steady job and start paying off the debt. Then those same students take out loans to buy a house or go on vacations.

There's a spending problem. Why does education have to be expensive in the first place? Why can't education be a basic human right? Or why not make it about the same price as paying for gasoline?

I went to college and still have a second degree to finish. But do I find it useful? No, not really. Having good people skills is useful. Most of the time, it's about knowing what to say and knowing how to say it so that I keep management happy with me. They really cared the most about my professional working experience anyway.

[Unthinking Majority]

You made a post laying out facts without telling anyone 'why' these facts are important.

The intentions of the OP are unknown, but you wouldn't say this if it were a post about black males, or white women.

This may shock you and others, but white males are human beings too. If they see decline in some kind of socioeconomic indicator, who cares right? Screw em!

[Unthinking Majority]

Why go to college when you have Playstation trophies to unlock and mother stilll lets you suckle from her bossom?

[Pants-of-dog]

If someone made a post about Black people or women being unable to access college, most people would assume the OP wants to discuss the historical racism or sexism we have seen for hundreds of years.

This is because we know history and white males have been unfairly over represented in colleges and most other opportunities for centuries.

If @Puffer Fish now suggests that white men have less opportunities than before, it is logical to assume that he wants to return to that time when white men benefited from racism and sexism (assuming we have achieved equality, which is doubtful).

Are we supposed to ignore history?

[ingliz]

@Puffer Fish

For most office jobs, you don't need an education. You could bring back child labour. A diploma or degree is overkill, a useless adornment.

So why do employers ask for them?

[Unthinking Majority]

If someone made a post about Black people or women being unable to access college, most people would assume the OP wants to discuss the historical racism or sexism we have seen for hundreds of years.

This is because we know history and white males have been unfairly over represented in colleges and most other opportunities for centuries.

If @Puffer Fish now suggests that white men have less opportunities than before, it is logical to assume that he wants to return to that time when white men benefited from racism and sexism (assuming we have achieved equality, which is doubtful).

Are we supposed to ignore history?

What if part of the reason fewer % of white males are going to college are the racist and possibly sexist admissions policies or unspoken racial/gender biases of current college admissions departments? Or lack of encouragement at the high school level? I'd think that worthy of discussion. Unless, of course, some want to ignore the issue entirely because they are racists.

It would be interesting to know exactly why these numbers have changed. It could be as simple as 8% of these 10% have started Youtube careers instead.

I would point out that a drop in college admissions for white men isn't necessarily a bad thing if it means merit is becoming more of a deciding factor and less racism/sexism and wealth are deciding factors than before. Maybe non white-men are simply outperforming them for reasons not having to do with discrimination?