Israel-Palestinian War 2023 - Page 106 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Political issues and parties in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.

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#15297811
Beren wrote:All in all Gaza is rather doomed to be Hamas territory anyway, so it could be alluring for Israel to ethnic cleanse it, although it's not feasible. Neither is rooting out Hamas, so I really wonder if how they mean to resolve the problem. I don't think they'd consider sending in an international military force workable. They'd be regarded as occupiers either and the whole thing would collapse sooner or later anyway.


Hamas could end like it is in the West Bank. An international peacekeeping force acting on behalf of the Palestinian Authority could be seen as legitimate by Gazans.
#15297812
wat0n wrote:Hamas could end like it is in the West Bank. An international peacekeeping force acting on behalf of the Palestinian Authority could be seen as legitimate by Gazans.

I guess there'd be elections again and we'd see, but which side would be ultimately stronger in general? I'd bet on the radicals.
#15297814
Beren wrote:I guess there'd be elections again and we'd see, but which side would be ultimately stronger in general? I'd bet on the radicals.


It's hard to know to be honest. I think, like in Israel, it depends on when they vote and also on the radicals themselves (e.g. Hamas does better than the PFLP).
#15297820
Hamas may or may not be more popular than the PA. I think we need to treat this as a unique scenario. I imagine if you're an Israeli and see a Palestinian declaring support for Hamas you will see them as a justified target. I can understand that view. But, let is every Israeli a justified target because they elected a man who refuses the existence of Palestinians as a people, let alone a sovereign state? We're in a state of complete extremes now, and all human beings should acknowledge the reprehensible nature of both (I'm not being Trump here, I promise!).

It's easy to get caught in an firm position for or against either side, but the only chance of anything resembling peace is huge compromise on both sides.
#15297825
FYI, I have predicted a death rate 100 times what Israel suffered, or more.

The more interesting question is what happens after. Netanyahu will be voted out, a more moderate coalition will run the place, but the mess will remain.
#15297832
Godstud wrote::lol: Deny. Deny. Deny. You post that males can become women. If that isn't a lie, then I don't know what is.


Quote me.

You also constantly state that Canada is committing genocide, on an ongoing basis, but have yet to provide me with a list of the dead.


I have provided a list.

And the evidence.

Your refusal in terms of accepting evidence is not an example of me lying.
#15297865
Beren wrote:At least it'd be their initial request.
However, Gaza and the West Bank are two different issues because there's no Hamas in the West Bank.


Return of Palestinians would probably be the minimum demand. Hamas or no Hamas, there could be ethnic cleansing--or a consummation of it--in both areas.

Sure, they seriously don't want them.


Egypt doesn't want the expense but it also doesn't want to go along with ethnic cleansing. If all Egypt cared about was the $ issue, promises of aid and debt forgiveness would probably more than compensate them.

Maybe because we just don't know what the actual consequences would be and for how long they'd last. It could be somewhat rough to them but they shouldn't expect or be afraid of anything that much serious, although they still should be careful.


I don't think the far right government, with people like smotrich and ben gvir, cares about the effect on arab relations, as long as they get all of the West Bank maybe gaza too for the jews.
#15297876
starman2003 wrote:Return of Palestinians would probably be the minimum demand.

They would demand it for a while, then what if Israel didn't let them back? Then they'd demand compensation.

starman2003 wrote:Egypt doesn't want the expense but it also doesn't want to go along with ethnic cleansing. If all Egypt cared about was the $ issue, promises of aid and debt forgiveness would probably more than compensate them.

Sure, it doesn't, that's why it won't happen. They couldn't get compensated enough for other issues.

starman2003 wrote:I don't think the far right government, with people like smotrich and ben gvir, cares about the effect on arab relations, as long as they get all of the West Bank maybe gaza too for the jews.

They also don't care because Israel still could live with the consequences since they wouldn't be so serious. They do care a lot about American relations, though, and the US wouldn't let them disrupt their alliance system in the region.

The New Arab wrote:Blinken also claimed that there would be “no forced displacement of Palestinians from Gaza, not now, not after the war”
#15297879
The IDF openly told Gazans that they must flee northern Gaza or be killed in the subsequent bombing.

The IDF bombed southern Gaza.

The Israeli government is not allowing refugees to return home.

Israeli policy papers and officials have explicitly expressed support for the idea of ethnically cleansing Gaza.

Nome of these facts are in dispute.
#15297881
The US, Britain and other western societies are absolutely drenched in racism. White Inferiorist racism. Jewish Supremacist Racism and Muslim Supremacist racism.

The hypocrisy of the Liberals just beggars belief. Hamas are Muslim Brotherhood. These are exactly the same people that were elected when Egyptians had the chance to vote, but more importantly these are exactly the same people that Hilary Clinton wanted to put in charge of Syria. The hypocritical outrage these Jewish Supremacists pour out when its suggested that Hamas should rule a unitary Palestinian State from the Jordan to the Sea. These Liberal hypocrites had no problem with "From the River to the Sea" when they were salivating over Sunni Muslim Brotherhood tyranny from the Euphrates to the Mediterranean in Syria. Muslim Brotherhood rule was good enough for Christian Gentiles. It was good enough for Alawite Gentiles. It was good enough for Pagan and Atheists Syrians who may not have been big fans of the Assad regime but preferred it a hundred times to the Sunni Arab alternatives. But God help anyone won suggests that Muslim Brotherhood rule is good enough for Jews.

In the end the Infidels, the semi Muslims and even Syria's Shia were saved by Saudi Arabia and Israel. Saudi Arabia helped build up the power of Al Qaeda and Islamic State and Israel invited in Russia to save the Assad regime when it was weeks away from complete collapse. And what did the Liberals do, with their limitless sense of self entitlement, they whined because Assad hadn't destroyed the groups created by their Saudi allies.

And while they scream and shout about the killing of innocent Jews on 10/7, these people still haven't given up their dream of smashing the Russian State allowing Turkey, Iran and the Taliban to pour out and conquer central Asia.
#15297893
Pants-of-dog wrote:The IDF openly told Gazans that they must flee northern Gaza or be killed in the subsequent bombing.

The IDF bombed southern Gaza.

The Israeli government is not allowing refugees to return home.

Israeli policy papers and officials have explicitly expressed support for the idea of ethnically cleansing Gaza.

Nome of these facts are in dispute.


And yet they are still in Gaza, which is where they're supposedly being expelled from.

You have yet to prove they have been kicked out of Gaza. That's what ethnically cleansing Gaza means.

It is not unreasonable to evacuate civilians from combat zones as combat extends within Gaza, given Hamas' willingness to operate from civilian areas. As the war progresses, we're seeing more and more evidence of their use of civilian infrastructure for combat operations and also of Hamas' refusal to wear uniforms and distinguish itself from the civilian population.

500,000 Israelis were evacuated from the Gaza border envelope within Israel precisely because of how dangerous it has been for civilians since October 7 - even now, one can't rule out Hamas may try another incursion inside Israel -, but we don't see anyone label this ethnic cleansing.

If it's about assumptions, I think it's far more reasonable to assume these accusations are in fact a way to justify the October 7 massacre, without doing so explicitly.
#15297895
Beren wrote:They would demand it for a while, then what if Israel didn't let them back? Then they'd demand compensation.


I doubt they'd take "compensation" as a substitute for repatriation. Assuming the palestinians are out for good, relations would be undermined on a lasting basis.

Sure, it doesn't, that's why it won't happen.


Israel could drive Gazans out regardless of Egyptian objections because Egypt wouldn't go to war (now) to stop it.

They also don't care because Israel still could live with the consequences since they wouldn't be so serious. They do care a lot about American relations, though, and the US wouldn't let them disrupt their alliance system in the region.


Indeed they wouldn't be very serious; as for the US, it's too wimpy to dictate especially in an election year.
#15297910
starman2003 wrote:I doubt they'd take "compensation" as a substitute for repatriation. Assuming the palestinians are out for good, relations would be undermined on a lasting basis.

It'd last for a while indeed before relations would be normalised somehow.

starman2003 wrote:Israel could drive Gazans out regardless of Egyptian objections because Egypt wouldn't go to war (now) to stop it.

Egyptian objections matter to the US, though, so the US doesn't let Israel drive out the Gazans.

starman2003 wrote:as for the US, it's too wimpy to dictate especially in an election year.

They still can prevent them from ethnic cleansing.

wat0n wrote:Egypt would definitely go to war to stop 2 million Palestinians from getting into its territory.

They'd rather try to push them back, it'd be easier and more useful.
#15297912
wat0n wrote:Egypt would definitely go to war to stop 2 million Palestinians from getting into its territory.



Egypt could simply allow weapons to be smuggled to Gaza... After the onslaught Hamas has several houndred thousand recruits...

The Gaza war and USA's unconditional support for Israel came many Muslim state to the conclusion an aliance with Russia and China is better then the West. Look how Putin was welcomed in UAE and Saudi Arabia
#15297916
wat0n wrote:Egypt would definitely go to war to stop 2 million Palestinians from getting into its territory.

Are you kidding? :lol: No. Egyptian dictator won't allow Egyptian-Israeli relations go broke. Sisi is very much pro-Israel.

Gaza won't get any help from Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood is not in power. There was a military coup back ün 2013, remember, guys? :lol:
#15297921
Istanbuller wrote:Are you kidding? :lol: No. Egyptian dictator won't allow Egyptian-Israeli relations go broke. Sisi is very much pro-Israel.

Gaza won't get any help from Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood is not in power. There was a military coup back ün 2013, remember, guys? :lol:

Exactly. Egyptian politics has been altered in order to allow the Egyptian army to receive money and plane-trips like the Lolita Express... from Israel. They have had a Western puppet dictator for a decade, and this will facilitate the genocide of Palestinians... like it was planned to do.

wat0n wrote:Hamas could end like it is in the West Bank. An international peacekeeping force acting on behalf of the Palestinian Authority could be seen as legitimate by Gazans.

Denied agency by Israeli apartheid rulers... Palestinians are treated like lab rats by people who play with war, genocide and racism like these were games.

"If the mouse follow the cheese we put in the maze, and if they run away from all the electro-shock devices that we use to torture them... they will be temporarily safe, and ready for our next self-empowering experiment on them."
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