US Presidential election 2024 thread. - Page 15 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15305279
Tainari88 wrote:Hey folks debating in here. Do you really think Trump is going to win the White House?

I think the man is going to be crying over having to put millions in an account while the appeals happen for his Trump properties. He is going to ask for money in order to keep going. So far the RNC is going to have to create an account to bail his ass out of legal fees.

I say all you Trump backers are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and buy these gaudy Gold Sneakers to help the cause of Trump getting to the White House?

@Rancid put on the gold sneakers my main man.

Now you can identify future insurrectionists by the sneakers they are walking around in. :lol: :lol:



Spend that money on that gaudy crap. Help the cause of white is right!! :lol:



Already there are multiple designs for caps that such MAGA cult of personality devotees wear to publicly identify themselves , and show their support . My father has a couple. I for one would consider it to be idolatrous to wear the name of any prominent figure on ones person , no matter who it is. If one can in all civility publicly show support for a political party , even as one might for a sports team , that would be one thing . But to give adoring allegiance to any particular person would in my opinion be giving glory that only belongs to if anyone the Most High , as Psalm 146:3-5 states . P.S. I was aware of the Donald Trump cologne . I think that it might have been developed before his political involvement though . Jimmy Kimmel gave it out . I will see if I can find the video .

#15305280
Pants-of-dog wrote:Sanders is a good example of a candidate that was not allowed to run because he threatened business interests.

These interests would rather have thousands of people die needlessly than lose some money.


This is the problem with the current system. It all is about the interests of very powerful lobbyists and corporations who would rather have people die needlessly than lose some money.

The reason for this is systemic. Not accidental. The system the way the laws are written in the USA punishes business interests who do not put profit above all other considerations. You are sanctioned for being humane or not allowing profit to override every other consideration.

The model is inhuman and immoral. Yet, no one does enough to change it. I wonder why? Because Greed is Good?

It is evil incarnate. So when it ceases to sustain life do not complain if you have supported a for-profit model your entire life by voting for that crap, supporting that crap, and failing to challenge that crap.

Do not remain indifferent.

Pants, has really summarized the reasons why that does not change. The entire system requires callous, inhumane behavior to be the law of the land. The same as slavery was long ago.

Everything economically related is systemic in nature. It has to be. Economies are like the lifeblood in a human body. It keeps the internal organs alive. You cut off the blood supply and everything dies in quick succession. So if you have an inhumane economic system you will have inhumane policies. The model has to change for it to become humane. There are models that work that are not about profit only.

They never talk about those models but I do.

Why there is no political will to make the change has to do with inactivity and passivity by the public at large, due to a lack of education about it, lack of awareness, and blind belief in for-profit as the only model that must be preserved as all costs, due to brainwashing by propaganda for years and spending a lot of money on manufacturing consent like Noam Chomsky discusses in his seminal work Manufacturing Consent.
#15305281
wat0n wrote:The US system is already public-private, the issue is that it's not well designed (if one can say it's designed at all, which is also very questionable).


I never heard of anybody going to universities in the US for free besides perhaps some scholarship programs or minority quotas which is not really public-private higher education system.
#15305283
Deutschmania wrote:Already there are multiple designs for caps that such MAGA cult of personality devotees wear to publicly identify themselves , and show their support . My father has a couple. I for one would consider it to be idolatrous to wear the name of any prominent figure on ones person , no matter who it is. If one can in all civility publicly show support for a political party , even as one might for a sports team , that would be one thing . But to give adoring allegiance to any particular person would in my opinion be giving glory that only belongs to if anyone the Most High , as Psalm 146:3-5 states . P.S. I was aware of the Donald Trump cologne . I think that it might have been developed before his political involvement though . Jimmy Kimmel gave it out . I will see if I can find the video .



I wonder if the workers who made those sneakers for Trump were American workers or he sent them to be made in China to save on labor costs eh? :lol:
#15305284
Godstud wrote:Note: Paying healthcare through taxes means we actually pay LESS.

No, you don't.

Deductions from pay and salaries is so high these days because state-run healthcare is so expensive and unmanageable.

JohnRawls wrote:Instead of going for single payer, make your universities free or change the system to be public-private instead of being fully private. It is a much better mobility ladder so the people who put in the effort will have a better life and will take care of themselves in the end.

Wrong.

Education is a service which can be priced truely only in market. Supply and demand makes prices.

Mixed economy does not work. Governments do not know where they should stop. That is the main reason why we have global phenomenon of inflation spiral today. Public sector makes things only worse.
#15305293
JohnRawls wrote:I never heard of anybody going to universities in the US for free besides perhaps some scholarship programs or minority quotas which is not really public-private higher education system.


I was referring to healthcare, although higher education is often subsidized too. Specially in public universities for in-state students (tuition is lower).
#15305300
wat0n wrote:I was referring to healthcare, although higher education is often subsidized too. Specially in public universities for in-state students (tuition is lower).


I went to the University of Puerto Rico in 1984. It was basically free for everything. They subsidized it through federal fund transfers that the local government would allocate to the public universities on the island. The hardest Uni to get accepted to at the time was the University of Puerto Rico. I think the tuition fees at the time were $5 a credit. I eventually went to two more universities in the States. One public and one private. The public one in the eighties as well was completely subsidized. Never paid tuition. I did have to wait for one year to be considered an in-state student. I spent that year working full-time and saving my money for expenses.

The private university was for graduate school and turned out to be much less expensive than the public university tuition. It was a Jesuit, Roman Catholic university in Denver. For an entire Master's program it was 11k in cost. Some of it could be offset by scholarships due to academic achievements and also funds that were about your background. If you met the criteria and economic profile you owed very little.

All that has dried up long ago. Now, it is very hard to afford universities.

Interestingly I met a retired couple who were originally from Europe and moved to Sydney Australia. They are moving and going to stay in Mexico and wanted information on becoming homeowners and citizens of Mexico because Sydney has been closing small, private universities and laying off academic professors. Due to not enough enrollment to keep the doors open. Many young people can't get into deep student loan debt to get a four-year undergraduate degree. They opt to not go to college, do some online certificates, and take their chances with the job market as is.

None of the young people after graduation can really afford to live in very expensive Australian cities like Sydney. The couple said that many Aussies work two jobs for years just to pay rent or mortgage payments and that a lot of necessary expenses like groceries and power bills are way too expensive and have gone up a lot while salaries have remained stagnant or flat.

They think it is systemic. They also told me they wanted me to give them Spanish classes privately. I am mulling that over.

They also said that they had no idea Mérida was so beautiful and affordable and that the culture of the Latin American nations was very wonderful and they loved the way the culture was. She said that in Australia and in Europe true knowledge about Latin American life is through some distorted media images and just ignorance. No one knows. She asked me why so many people know nothing about Latin America. I just answered her with, 'If all you are told constantly about a country or a region are distortions you wind up believing the distortions. Traveling dispels those lies. Then you get a better image. It goes both ways. The Latin Americans think living in places like Australia England Canada or the USA is paradise. They go there and it is a disappointment or they then realize they had to have a very long list of prerequisites to make things go smoothly.'

She smiled. I had to leave but she was very determined to keep talking to me. ;)
#15305332
Tainari88 wrote:I went to the University of Puerto Rico in 1984. It was basically free for everything. They subsidized it through federal fund transfers that the local government would allocate to the public universities on the island. The hardest Uni to get accepted to at the time was the University of Puerto Rico. I think the tuition fees at the time were $5 a credit. I eventually went to two more universities in the States. One public and one private. The public one in the eighties as well was completely subsidized. Never paid tuition. I did have to wait for one year to be considered an in-state student. I spent that year working full-time and saving my money for expenses.

The private university was for graduate school and turned out to be much less expensive than the public university tuition. It was a Jesuit, Roman Catholic university in Denver. For an entire Master's program it was 11k in cost. Some of it could be offset by scholarships due to academic achievements and also funds that were about your background. If you met the criteria and economic profile you owed very little.

All that has dried up long ago. Now, it is very hard to afford universities.

Interestingly I met a retired couple who were originally from Europe and moved to Sydney Australia. They are moving and going to stay in Mexico and wanted information on becoming homeowners and citizens of Mexico because Sydney has been closing small, private universities and laying off academic professors. Due to not enough enrollment to keep the doors open. Many young people can't get into deep student loan debt to get a four-year undergraduate degree. They opt to not go to college, do some online certificates, and take their chances with the job market as is.

None of the young people after graduation can really afford to live in very expensive Australian cities like Sydney. The couple said that many Aussies work two jobs for years just to pay rent or mortgage payments and that a lot of necessary expenses like groceries and power bills are way too expensive and have gone up a lot while salaries have remained stagnant or flat.

They think it is systemic. They also told me they wanted me to give them Spanish classes privately. I am mulling that over.

They also said that they had no idea Mérida was so beautiful and affordable and that the culture of the Latin American nations was very wonderful and they loved the way the culture was. She said that in Australia and in Europe true knowledge about Latin American life is through some distorted media images and just ignorance. No one knows. She asked me why so many people know nothing about Latin America. I just answered her with, 'If all you are told constantly about a country or a region are distortions you wind up believing the distortions. Traveling dispels those lies. Then you get a better image. It goes both ways. The Latin Americans think living in places like Australia England Canada or the USA is paradise. They go there and it is a disappointment or they then realize they had to have a very long list of prerequisites to make things go smoothly.'

She smiled. I had to leave but she was very determined to keep talking to me. ;)


Even today in-state graduate students at public universities can attend at affordable rates... Roughly equivalent to those $11k when accounting for inflation (assuming you went to grad school in the 1989-1990 school year) at UIC (University of Illinois in Chicago), for the most expensive masters degree. This includes all fees and also health insurance.

Of course, for private universities it varies a lot more, depending on school brand and degree, and many don't make distinctions between in-state and out-of-state students. But there are great public universities if one is really averse to getting into debt, and wants to keep it manageable.
#15305334
wat0n wrote:Even today in-state graduate students at public universities can attend at affordable rates... Roughly equivalent to those $11k when accounting for inflation (assuming you went to grad school in the 1989-1990 school year) at UIC (University of Illinois in Chicago), for the most expensive masters degree. This includes all fees and also health insurance.

Of course, for private universities it varies a lot more, depending on school brand and degree, and many don't make distinctions between in-state and out-of-state students. But there are great public universities if one is really averse to getting into debt, and wants to keep it manageable.


My son owes zero debt wat0n because he was good at basketball and he worked at a hardware store while in college.

You got to have a plan. And you have to have the academic skills to do the work and get the classes done.

He never liked that his father paid for tutoring online and with Kumon. He was terrible at math and reading. And so we boosted his skills with paying for that program from Japan. Later I think my husband paid some amount for online games when he was in fourth to sixth grade to make sure he caught up academically, we put him in a private mostly in Spanish Roman Catholic school in Denver called Escuela de Guadalupe. He had to speak Spanish all day and hated it. LOL.

https://www.escuelaguadalupe.org/

Kumon Institute Education Co. Ltd. is an educational network based in Japan and created by Toru Kumon. It uses his Kumon Method to teach mathematics and reading primarily for young students. Wikipedia
Founder: Toru Kumon
Founded: 1958, Osaka, Osaka, Japan
Headquarters: Takanawa, Tokyo, Japan
President: Hidenori Ikegami
Subsidiaries: Kumon América do Sul Instituto de Educação Ltda. Kumon Asia & Oceania Pte. Ltd


Then one day he came home from school and with some little accent on his Spanish gave his first all in Spanish response to me saying to him in Spanish this:

Tainari: Te toca hoy la tarea de botar la basura. También tienes que limpiar la sala. Agarra esa escoba y bárrelo todo bien....

Son: ¡No me gusta botar la basura--apesta mucho. No me gusta barrer tampoco!

I laughed my ass off. I hugged him and said,'¿Aprendistes español por fin eh?'

He was grouchy.

Hee hee. Kids. They do not know what is good for them.

I have heard Baron Trump's son speaks fluent Slovakian. His mother made sure of it. They like talking about Donald behind his back. Lol. The fool.

:lol: :lol:
#15305338
litwin wrote:NO TRUMP !


Are you going to buy his merchandise and help America make sure they withdraw from Ukraine again and leave the war path and pursue the dirty Commies all over the world again?
#15305347
Tainari88 wrote:Are you going to buy his merchandise and help America make sure they withdraw from Ukraine again and leave the war path and pursue the dirty Commies all over the world again?

NO, i buy nothing made in moscow ulus, or from trump. + Trump is not our N1 enemy , our (liberal democracy ) enemy N1 is Moscow genocidal impelrism

#15305363
Istanbuller wrote:Deductions from pay and salaries is so high these days because state-run healthcare is so expensive and unmanageable.
Canada pays about 1/2 what the USA does, per person, for their healthcare, so you're wrong.

Canada $6,319 (2022)

USA $12,555 (2022)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... ted_States
#15305368
Godstud wrote:Canada pays about 1/2 what the USA does, per person, for their healthcare, so you're wrong.

Canada $6,319 (2022)

USA $12,555 (2022)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... ted_States

$6,319 is way too high. Millions of Canadian people who do not make a doctor visit in hospitals end up paying that amount.

That amount will never decrease if state run healthcare is still around. It will increase. Things will only get worse each day.

State run healthcare is practically dead everywhere in the world. It is a huge burden.
#15305369
Istanbuller wrote:$6,319 is way too high. Millions of Canadian people who do not make a doctor visit in hospitals end up paying that amount.
What a fucking Lie!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: That isn't what people pay out of pocket! it costs you NOTHING to go see the doctor in Canada! You're making shit up to support an argument you cannot support with facts.

Istanbuller wrote:That amount will never decrease if state run healthcare is still around. It will increase. Things will only get worse each day.
it has actually decreased, but you haven't considered that since you are making up lies to support a false narrative about something that you are ignorant about.

Istanbuller wrote:State run healthcare is practically dead everywhere in the world. It is a huge burden.
No, it's not. The best healthcare systems in the world have state run healthcare.

Best healthcare in the world:
1. Norway. Norway's healthcare system is renowned for its quality and accessibility, providing universal coverage through a tax-based national system.
https://velocityglobal.com/resources/bl ... l%20system.

OOPS!!! State run!

FFS, go back to school or at least Google something before going on an idiotic rant about it.
#15305370
Godstud wrote:What a fucking Lie!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: That isn't what people pay out of pocket! it costs you NOTHING to go see the doctor in Canada! You're making shit up to support an argument you cannot support with facts.

Do you claim that it is not deducted from people's pay and wages? Canadian government takes that amount out of your pocket. It is impoverishing you.

You can only be fine with it if you are not materialistic. Otherwise, no one can be fine with being robbed. :lol:

it has actually decreased, but you haven't considered that since you are making up lies to support a false narrative about something that you are ignorant about.

Prices can only drop if market forces of supply and demand is applied with technological innovation aiding it. That means privatization.

Best healthcare in the world:
1. Norway. Norway's healthcare system is renowned for its quality and accessibility, providing universal coverage through a tax-based national system.
https://velocityglobal.com/resources/bl ... l%20system.

OOPS!!! State run!

FFS, go back to school or at least Google something before going on an idiotic rant about it.

Scandinavian countries are very bad examples. Government taxes people deadly. Population is old. Wages are too low due to deductions. These are reasons why we see shake of leftist governments in elections in these countries.
#15305372
Istanbuller wrote:Do you claim that it is not deducted from people's pay and wages? Canadian government takes that amount out of your pocket. It is impoverishing you.
:lol: No. I am not going to lie for your benefit and to support your stupidly false narrative. Canadians pay LESS than if we had to buy private insurance, because the money is spent better. Canadians are not being "impoverished". Where to you get this BS from?? Canada has a far lower poverty rate(about 7.5%) than the USA(12.5%).

Istanbuller wrote:You can only be fine with it if you are not materialistic. Otherwise, no one can be fine with being robbed.
Nobody is being robbed. Taxes are not robbery. Stop babbling.

Istanbuller wrote:Scandinavian countries are very bad examples. Government taxes people deadly. Population is old. Wages are too low due to deductions. These are reasons why we see shake of leftist governments in elections in these countries.
No. They are not bad examples that is objectively false. These countries have better healthcare systems and pay MUCH less than the USA does for a worse system. Not all taxes go to healthcare. Scandinavian countries have about the same poverty rate as USA. Norway has a lower poverty rate.

I don't see any Scandinavian governments doing what you say they are but you have yet to state an actual fact in this discussion.
#15305379
Istanbuller wrote:Do you claim that it is not deducted from people's pay and wages? Canadian government takes that amount out of your pocket. It is impoverishing you.

You can only be fine with it if you are not materialistic. Otherwise, no one can be fine with being robbed. :lol:


Prices can only drop if market forces of supply and demand is applied with technological innovation aiding it. That means privatization.


Scandinavian countries are very bad examples. Government taxes people deadly. Population is old. Wages are too low due to deductions. These are reasons why we see shake of leftist governments in elections in these countries.


What are you on about? Norway has higher wages and level of wellbeing than the US. Average wage in Norway is 50% higher than in the US. Sweden and Denmark are basically the same wage wise while human development and wellbeing wise they are just hands down higher than the US. Finland is a bit lower wage wise but again higher on wellbeing and development.

The long story short here, if you wanna have an argument for state provided programs than there is no more ideal example than all of Scandinavian countries. They are literally the most happy, most human developed and most well humans in the world. Literally by any statistic.
#15305399
Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Finland got rich when they were capitalist countries with free markets. Later leftists and socialist governments came into power in all of them. Since then they are falling. They are dependent on Germany taxpayers money since then. That is the reason why gdp per capita alike figures still look high. Without EU funds, these countries cannot maintain state run programs.

They are stuck with high taxes, low and old population, record level of excess government spending.

Scandinavian countries are really really bad examples.
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