[Rugoz]

Ukraine aid passed with 311-112.

What a charade this was .

Either way, bad news for Putin.

[Tainari88]

Depends on how long each side wants to keep fighting.

How would you like to see this end?

I hate war. I hate seeing women shot in the street trying to leave a war torn nation with her kids and they shoot her like a piece of nothing.

I hate seeing hungry children crying in pain over hunger or being afraid like in the videos Skinster showed me about those children scared in the bombings and wanting to not be in danger. That pisses me off something bad Rancid. I can not see little kids hungry and scared and adults threatening their lives because the only thing they care about is killing the other side in some orgy of violence. It angers me and upsets me.

I can't cope with the idea of 30,000 of those beautiful people dying and being starved out and destroyed with those gorgeous babies and children crying for their mothers and fathers and needing protection and not getting it and then silenced for all time as they die.

The abomination disturbs me and it can get me upset for weeks. I can't do it. Injustice bothers me deeply. The ones who do not give a shit I have really nothing in common with. Inability to feel and understand what injustice is for me? It means you stopped being human.

And once you do that? You are capable of anything. Selfish pig people find it easy to dismiss the suffering of others. I never can.

It makes you feel too much sometimes.

War is a terrible thing. You have to think about what it means over the long run.

Ukraine is a nation with a history that is difficult. I remember looking at pictures of the Ural mountains and then thinking about that huge ancient lake Bikal?

All human life is sacred to me. And beautiful.

I want peace and for people to understand that they can solve big problems. But again being unjust will never solve big problems. Ever.

[litwin]

Tainari, make a separate thread for that boring conversation about immigration please, you are off-topic.

Back on topic:

BREAKING : U.S. House of Representatives has voted for Ukraine support bill with overwhelmingly majority. A huge day. Keep up your work!

[annatar1914]

US House of "Representatives" passed the military aid to Ukraine Bill on God damned Adolf Hitler's birthday.

Let that sink in.

Bandera animals and their catamite enablers will burn in this life and eternally.

[paeng]

Bad news not only for Putin.

[JohnRawls]

US House of "Representatives" passed the military aid to Ukraine Bill on God damned Adolf Hitler's birthday.

Let that sink in.

Bandera animals and their catamite enablers will burn in this life and eternally.

Good job at consuming those conspiracy theories.

[Rich]

Bad news not only for Putin.

What a stupid thing to say. If it was bad news for Putin it would be band news for Russian as well. But this would only be good news for Ukrainians, if it led to a proper victory. All this aid may achieve is to delay Ukrainian nationalists rendezvous with reality. This aid may even help Putin in the long run making an eventual victory if it comes even more glorious for Russia and even more humiliating for NATO.

[Rancid]

I see the world "humiliation" used a lot in this thread. Tends to be used by right wingers. I wonder if there's some sort of study around the strategies and propaganda around the usage of this word. Of course, this word is part of the historical grievances (real and imaginary), but I wonder if there's something else there.

[litwin]

I hate war. I hate seeing women shot in the street trying to leave a war torn nation with her kids and they shoot her like a piece of nothing.

I hate seeing hungry children crying in pain over hunger or being afraid like in the videos Skinster showed me about those children scared in the bombings and wanting to not be in danger. That pisses me off something bad Rancid. I can not see little kids hungry and scared and adults threatening their lives because the only thing they care about is killing the other side in some orgy of violence. It angers me and upsets me.

I can't cope with the idea of 30,000 of those beautiful people dying and being starved out and destroyed with those gorgeous babies and children crying for their mothers and fathers and needing protection and not getting it and then silenced for all time as they die.

The abomination disturbs me and it can get me upset for weeks. I can't do it. Injustice bothers me deeply. The ones who do not give a shit I have really nothing in common with. Inability to feel and understand what injustice is for me? It means you stopped being human.

And once you do that? You are capable of anything. Selfish pig people find it easy to dismiss the suffering of others. I never can.

It makes you feel too much sometimes.

War is a terrible thing. You have to think about what it means over the long run.

Ukraine is a nation with a history that is difficult. I remember looking at pictures of the Ural mountains and then thinking about that huge ancient lake Bikal?

All human life is sacred to me. And beautiful.

I want peace and for people to understand that they can solve big problems. But again being unjust will never solve big problems. Ever.

a good one:

[annatar1914]

Good job at consuming those conspiracy theories.

@JohnRawls :

Right. Good job at gaslighting ignorant Westerners with bullshit propaganda, who are inclined to hate and fear and dehumanize Russians and Slavs anyway. It takes work to fix this problem, but fortunately the brothers are working hard at it, with good results.

[litwin]

Good job at consuming those conspiracy theories.

hello, is this correct ?

French howitzers cost the Muscovite artillerymen an enormous number of lives

[JohnRawls]

@JohnRawls :

Right. Good job at gaslighting ignorant Westerners with bullshit propaganda, who are inclined to hate and fear and dehumanize Russians and Slavs anyway. It takes work to fix this problem, but fortunately the brothers are working hard at it, with good results.

You argument is that US waited 6 months+ to pass the aid when it was needed before just for Hitlers birthday, in what reality does it make any sense?

[Rancid]

You argument is that US waited 6 months+ to pass the aid when it was needed before just for Hitlers birthday, in what reality does it make any sense?

The other bit you are missing, is that technically the bill as still not passed. It needs to make it through the senate (expected to pass), and then it needs to be signed by the president (expected to happen). It probably won't get officially passed till mid this week.

The reality is that the bill didn't get passed on 4/20. The amount of reaching being done in this thread is staggering.

That said, this is a common trait from right wingers. They look for symbolism in fucking everything. To a degree that is pathological, because the search of symbolism leads them to irrational positions/points/conclusions. I'm sure the obsessions with humiliation and personifying whole nations is a part of this pathology.

[JohnRawls]

The other bit you are missing, is that technically the bill as still not passed. It needs to make it through the senate (expected to pass), and then it needs to be signed by the president (expected to happen). It probably won't get officially passed till mid this week.

The reality is that the bill didn't get passed on 4/20. The amount of reaching being done in this thread is staggering.

That said, this is a common trait from right wingers. They look for symbolism in fucking everything. To a degree that is pathological, because the search of symbolism leads them to irrational positions/points/conclusions. I'm sure the obsessions with humiliation and personifying whole nations is a part of this pathology.

I know and that is why I was not talking about it. Republicans might still cause some bullshit in the senate, you never know. Just the whole idea that the vote was on Hitlers Birthday as a symbol of something is a conspiracy theory on the level of gay frogs or evil chili demons straight from Alex Jones.

[annatar1914]

You argument is that US waited 6 months+ to pass the aid when it was needed before just for Hitlers birthday, in what reality does it make any sense?

The reality of crypto Fascists/Nazis ruling the West. The war in the Middle East was activated precisely because the Bandera are losing the conflict in the Ukraine, and among the reasons for doing so is to activate the eschatological lunacy of the most ardent Trump supporters (Evangelical Zionists who think that the " Magog" that they believe will invade Israel as head of an Islamic alliance, is Russia) to support any anti Russian efforts now that they see Israel threatened. There are those on this very thread who are midwives of this evil nonsense, and they try to make both conflicts part of a larger war with that aim in mind. It's all about murdering the Jews and Slavs, as usual, through willing dupes.

[noemon]

Passing legislation during birthdays and anniversaries is STANDARD for states and a subtle way of sending a symbolic message while retaining plausible deniability.

Ask Erdogan, he passes all Hagia Sophia related legislation during the anniversary of either its fall or the treaty of Lausanne.

I wasn't even aware about Hitler's birthday, but since Hitler amd Nazis feature prominently in the Ukraine narrative, then I can easily see the US doing this as an fu to Russian people.

States go through massive pains to do this kind of thing, actually.

[litwin]

[JohnRawls]

@Rancid Sometimes it really saddens me how easily people buy in to simplistic explanations and so easy to dupe by propaganda especially when it fits a random theme that were exploited before. What do you think is the common denominator for that? Is there any way to argue or point to argue with people that already started believing in it? Or is it impossible to actually convince them since they will never experience the pain that some other experience from those events/for them its just talk from somewhere far away?

Last week also one the main Russian propagandists also did a seminar sort of on how it works which is a good listen:

[litwin]

The other bit you are missing, is that technically the bill as still not passed. It needs to make it through the senate (expected to pass), and then it needs to be signed by the president (expected to happen). It probably won't get officially passed till mid this week.

The reality is that the bill didn't get passed on 4/20. The amount of reaching being done in this thread is staggering.

That said, this is a common trait from right wingers. They look for symbolism in fucking everything. To a degree that is pathological, because the search of symbolism leads them to irrational positions/points/conclusions. I'm sure the obsessions with humiliation and personifying whole nations is a part of this pathology.

from the other side :

[Rancid]

What do you think is the common denominator for that?

I think it's the so called "power of belief". The more strongly you believe in something, the more effort you will put into confirming it (i.e. confirmation bias, cherry picking, etc.). The degree to which we choose to believe certain things, directly plays into how far down a rabbit hole we are willing to go with it. We all fall into this, but some of us far more than others. Those of us that fall into this more than others, internalize it as a part of our very identity. Hence why it's so hard to let go of wild beliefs. Going back on a belief feels like turning your back on yourself.

One mechanism to defend these sort of beliefs is to create a sort of fake equivalence of ideas. All of a sudden, ideas that are not rooted in reality start to get equal weight as those that are. Hence, the deep state Nazi narrative (which is ridiculous) becomes as real as say, the military-industrial complex (which is a valid point). These ideas start to get blended to obfuscate the dumb shit ideas. This thread is loaded with shit like this, and this happens most with the far right and far left (which is what makes them so similar).

There's a lot of idea adjacency dishonesty going on here. Where you wrap a dumb shit, in reasonable shit, and pass it off as all 100% true and indisputable. This is how social media propaganda works as well. Lots of idea adjacency based manipulation. Often, in a slow boil form.

Is there any way to argue or point to argue with people that already started believing in it?

I don't think it is. Fighting bad information/belief with good/reasoned information, isn't enough. Ultimately these are narratives that are deeply believed, followed, and turn into an identity (see rah rah USA types in America as another example). Evidence alone, won't do it. I'm not sure what would.

Another example of htis, is this weird notion that many people on pofo have "Trump derangement syndrome" on pofo. As in, an obsession with Trump. Yet, the evidence doesn't bare this out. If this were true, we would see a new thread started about Trump on pofo every single day, because there is stuff going on with that guy and the Republican every single day that could easily be discussed and/or made fun of (I'm not even sure there is a thread on the criminal trial that starts tomorrow... so much for obsession). Still, the belief of this "Trump derangement syndrome" continues despite reality saying otherwise. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it's belief at this point.

This is because these people have a religious like belief of these ideas. Reality doesn't matter anymore. The go too "defense" is also often "well you too". Which, is true to a point, but not to the ridiculous extent these people themselves go down. Again, an attempt to create false equivalence of wacky shit against more reasonable shit.

Or is it impossible to actually convince them since they will never experience the pain that some other experience from those events/for them its just talk from somewhere far away?

Nearly impossible.