[Bill_Nye]

So basically you don't believe it would be possible for a dna test to distinguish whether someone had scottish or german ancestry?

No, I would doubt that scottish or german ancestry would have a distinct meaning. There is a difference.

[Tainari88]

Tibetan monks have genes that increase their ability to process oxygen at high latitudes. However, I want to know what this vaguely defined characteristic is. Also, most populations haven't been genetically isolated in such a way as he suggests. Most Europeans for example intermixed through war and before the adoption of the nation state in the late 18th century there was no concept of peoples being distinct nations.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

The peoples of Europe didn't conceive of themselves as being nations for thousands of years prior to the onset of nationalism. That is a relatively new categorization that ignores the more messy historical truth of people fighting, fucking, and moving through the continent for thousands (perhaps 10s of thousands) of years

Bill Nye you are being just truthful and logical and scientific. Five Man will never accept this. He is thinking that Donald Trump is out to kill off White People on purpose and is soft on the enemies of White National Socialism.

The reality is that people keep fighting, having intercourse and moving around from continent to continent. A long time ago, some ancestor of mine with a common Spanish last name, got a ship bound for San Juan Bautista (El Viejo San Juan), from Seville. Cádiz and Sevilla were common port cities to ship out Spanish prisoners to the Caribbean islands. Cuba or otherwise known as Cubacanán also was a common destination for Southern Spaniards. Most of the Conquistadores 'or pillagers' Lol--were from the Southern parts of Spain like Bernal Diaz del Castillo who wrote 'La Conquista de la Nueva Iberia' a famous book about the takeover of Mexico City in 1521.

An ancestor of mine was sent on a ship to Puerto Rico for stealing bread. A common occurrence for those times. They mostly fled the Spanish crown's authority and hid from the tax collectors who were greedy to fill the Old World with New Gold and Silver from the rich mines of San Luis Potosí in México and Cuzco and the gold mines of Perú too. They all passed through the Caribbean. Puerto Rico was a very strategic island. That is why the US Americans in 1898 wanted to keep it and never give it independence that they lied about wanting to give us that and help us get away from the Spanish crown. Instead they did the same bullshit the Spanish crown did. But with less intelligence. Lol.

I read the documents from those times. Los códices. The first officials to rule in San Juan were Juan Ponce de León and Christopher Columbus, and others. They even wrote down through the Roman Catholic priests who were in charge of recording the happenings for the Spanish King and Queen in Castilla la Vieja. The priests wrote that the Taino indians of Puerto Rico had told the Spanish that there wasn't any gold to be had in Puerto Rico but that if they wanted gold they needed to go further west to the Meshica empire. They literally said, 'Meshica'. Which is the ancient word for the Aztecs. Who did have a lot of gold objects and art. Puerto Rico did not have great gold reserves at all. Or silver either. Mexico had a lot of both gold and silver.

In fact, San Luis Potosí got a bunch of Welsh coal miners who dedicated themselves to mining silver and wound up in that city and state in Mexico. They settled there and married Mexican wives and the city is full of Welsh last names and pasties with Mexican fillings.

The history of that region is very varied. My point in telling you this Bill Nye is that humanity has been mixing culturally, linguistically and physically for thousands of years. We are not a static species. Men who who have been at sea for months without female company once they go to a port are not going to be too picky about having sex with a European woman or a woman from Africa or Asia or Indigenous roots either. They are just men looking for a good time. Yet, here is some man Five Man thinking men are going to go by his rules of purity. It is historically just not accurate at all.

Most of what he believes is not rooted in historical facts at all.

[Bill_Nye]

Yet, here is some man Five Man thinking men are going to go by his rules of purity. It is historically just not accurate at all.

Most of what he believes is not rooted in historical facts at all.

Thanks, this part made me laugh. Haha, it is very prudish sounding.

[Potemkin]

Tibetan monks have genes that increase their ability to process oxygen at high latitudes. However, I want to know what this vaguely defined characteristic is. Also, most populations haven't been genetically isolated in such a way as he suggests. Most Europeans for example intermixed through war and before the adoption of the nation state in the late 18th century there was no concept of peoples being distinct nations.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

The peoples of Europe didn't conceive of themselves as being nations for thousands of years prior to the onset of nationalism. That is a relatively new categorization that ignores the more messy historical truth of people fighting, fucking, and moving through the continent for thousands (perhaps 10s of thousands) of years

Exactly right, and I’ve said the same thing to @FiveofSwords myself. To no effect, of course.

[Potemkin]

So basically you don't believe it would be possible for a dna test to distinguish whether someone had scottish or german ancestry?

You’re missing the point, @FiveofSwords. Two thousand years ago, there was no such place as ‘Scotland’ or ‘Germany’, and no such people as the ‘Scots’ or the ‘Germans’. And when these nations and peoples did form, they did so as mixtures of different tribes, ethnicities and cultures.

[FiveofSwords]

No, I would doubt that scottish or german ancestry would have a distinct meaning. There is a difference.

What is the difference?

[FiveofSwords]

You’re missing the point, @FiveofSwords. Two thousand years ago, there was no such place as ‘Scotland’ or ‘Germany’, and no such people as the ‘Scots’ or the ‘Germans’. And when these nations and peoples did form, they did so as mixtures of different tribes, ethnicities and cultures.

And you are missing the point that it is irrelevant. Certainly genes don't know whether there is a country called Scotland. It doesn't matter.

Certainly there were people in Scotland 2k years ago. The romans called the region Caledonia.

[Potemkin]

And you are missing the point that it is irrelevant. Certainly genes don't know whether there is a country called Scotland. It doesn't matter.

Certainly there were people in Scotland 2k years ago. The romans called the region Caledonia.

Indeed, and the people living there were the Picts, about whom little is known beyond the fact that they tattooed their bodies and left huge quantities of petroglyphs. The western part of Caledonia was invaded in the 5th and 6th centuries by a Celtic tribe from what is now Ireland called the ‘Scotii’. They carved out their own little kingdom called ‘Dalriada’, and there then followed centuries of conflict between the Picts and the Scots until Kenneth McAlpine united them into a single kingdom, which became known as ‘Scotland’. While there were certainly people living in the region 2000 years ago, they were certainly not the Scots. And when Scotland finally emerged as a nation-state, it was as a mixture of different tribes and ethnicities. This is true for England, Ireland and Wales too.

[Bill_Nye]

What is the difference?

The difference is that those tests tell statistically where you likely came from and where your heritage can likely be traced to. It is unlikely that you get the results that you are 100% welsh or whatever instead you get a list of regions from which you likely inherited different scraps of dna and sometimes you don't get a location with certain migratory groups. Read for yourself:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/ ... -explainer

[ingliz]

@Bill_Nye

If one were being cynical, you would say these firms knowingly use the fake 'science' these tests offer to part fools from their money.

[wat0n]

Those are just genealogical tests. Genealogy isn't race.

[FiveofSwords]

Indeed, and the people living there were the Picts, about whom little is known beyond the fact that they tattooed their bodies and left huge quantities of petroglyphs. The western part of Caledonia was invaded in the 5th and 6th centuries by a Celtic tribe from what is now Ireland called the ‘Scotii’. They carved out their own little kingdom called ‘Dalriada’, and there then followed centuries of conflict between the Picts and the Scots until Kenneth McAlpine united them into a single kingdom, which became known as ‘Scotland’. While there were certainly people living in the region 2000 years ago, they were certainly not the Scots. And when Scotland finally emerged as a nation-state, it was as a mixture of different tribes and ethnicities. This is true for England, Ireland and Wales too.

I know what we know about the history. How is any of this relevant to biology?

[FiveofSwords]

The difference is that those tests tell statistically where you likely came from and where your heritage can likely be traced to. It is unlikely that you get the results that you are 100% welsh or whatever instead you get a list of regions from which you likely inherited different scraps of dna and sometimes you don't get a location with certain migratory groups. Read for yourself:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/ ... -explainer

Why does that matter?

[QatzelOk]

It’s not even the case that all Zionists are Jews - there are plenty of ‘Christian Zionists’ in the USA.

Yes, but how many of those "Christian Zionists" took a ride on Jeffrey's plane before *realizing* that they supported the big money nation in the Middle East?

...The white man today has been inculcated into self loathing and hates nationalism. People like that cannot fight. ...

Are you kidding? White people whose cultures had recently been eradicated or had been taken away from their cultures, provided the brutal fighting force in the USA over centuries who killed off 150 nations, and then went after Latin America.

Killing people's sense of self... leads them to be great attack dogs for the global elite. Today's nation states like France, Spain and the USA... killed off lots of cultures, and then imposed a fake collective culture and language on their own entrapped populations.

There is nothing "pure" about the result. Why did all those languages "need" to be eradicated? To create better fighting forces? Is destroying culture really about creating alienated spartans for rich people to use to accumulate diamonds and golden crowns?

[FiveofSwords]

Yes, but how many of those "Christian Zionists" took a ride on Jeffrey's plane before *realizing* that they supported the big money nation in the Middle East?



Are you kidding? White people whose cultures had recently been eradicated or had been taken away from their cultures, provided the brutal fighting force in the USA over centuries who killed off 150 nations, and then went after Latin America.

Killing people's sense of self... leads them to be great attack dogs for the global elite. Today's nation states like France, Spain and the USA... killed off lots of cultures, and then imposed a fake collective culture and language on their own entrapped populations.

There is nothing "pure" about the result. Why did all those languages "need" to be eradicated? To create better fighting forces? Is destroying culture really about creating alienated spartans for rich people to use to accumulate diamonds and golden crowns?

First of all, the usa was never a nation state.

Second, people in the usa had a very strong sense of self, and they certainly were not self loathing.

The social contract was democracy in exchange for conscription. The people believed they were sovereign so when they were fighting for the usa they were fighting for themselves.

And to a big extent, it was in fact true. When white Americans took land from native Americans, they did benefit both individually and as a people.

Certainly the white man today is nothing loke what he was 100 years ago. There is no way the usa could find enough white people to fight ww2...even if we had the industrial base to support it...which we don't.

White people did not hate themselves 100 years ago. Now they do. Now they are mostly just cowards and extreme narcissists and libertines. And also stupid.

[FiveofSwords]

The difference is that those tests tell statistically where you likely came from and where your heritage can likely be traced to. It is unlikely that you get the results that you are 100% welsh or whatever instead you get a list of regions from which you likely inherited different scraps of dna and sometimes you don't get a location with certain migratory groups. Read for yourself:

https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/ ... -explainer

FYI it is simply not true that in order to have a high tajima's d number that there has to be zero gene flow. That is just a biologically illiterate claim.

[ingliz]

@FiveofSwords

Tajima's D number: Expected observations

High -> low gene flow -> high inbreeding coefficient -> decreasing population

Low -> high gene flow -> low inbreeding coefficient -> expanding population

[Tainari88]

Indeed, and the people living there were the Picts, about whom little is known beyond the fact that they tattooed their bodies and left huge quantities of petroglyphs. The western part of Caledonia was invaded in the 5th and 6th centuries by a Celtic tribe from what is now Ireland called the ‘Scotii’. They carved out their own little kingdom called ‘Dalriada’, and there then followed centuries of conflict between the Picts and the Scots until Kenneth McAlpine united them into a single kingdom, which became known as ‘Scotland’. While there were certainly people living in the region 2000 years ago, they were certainly not the Scots. And when Scotland finally emerged as a nation-state, it was as a mixture of different tribes and ethnicities. This is true for England, Ireland and Wales too.

The purity thing is not holding up for Five Man? But, but the purity. The fiction of purity and all one culture in a static state and they are the superior and what the fuck? They are not pure? Picts and Scots and Celtic tribe and some other ethnicities messing up the purity bullshit? He can't cope.

Oscar D'Leon again. Llorarás. Five man is in deep denial. Humans are running around all over the place for thousands of years, invading, inteermarrying, looking for food and water, sailing the seven seas and doing everything that is legal and illegal under the sun. That is the nature of the species. Trying to create some myth of what happened when it is not true is for people manipulating reality in the world in order to create something that is about power and wanting money and to be able to dictate. Period. If he does not understand that yet? He needs to realize it.

Another thing is the ones who are winners today could be losers tomorrow. And the power seat is about musical chairs throughout human history. that is how it is. That hierarchy of greatness that stays still for all time is shit. You can have an Empire lose its grip on its colonies and the colonies wind up kicking the Empire in the ass commercially, and in terms of power relationships. That happens all the time in human history. Again, English was a language of peasants and uneducated country folk. Until it wasn't anymore. It is about changing conditions. If he does not grasp that then where is his intelligence in any rational discussion Pote? You tell me.

Oscar D'Leon.

And another hit about what @FiveofSwords needs to do. And this song is dedicated to @ingliz because Five Man needs to give it up.

Five man you need to stop standing around and spouting shit about purity in race. Because it is just not true. Not even for your own ethnic group....got to give it up.

[FiveofSwords]

@FiveofSwords

Tajima's D number: Expected observations

High -> low gene flow -> high inbreeding coefficient -> decreasing population

Low -> high gene flow -> low inbreeding coefficient -> expanding population

I don't believe you are sentient enough to understand what tajimas number is, but I will still try to explain it like you are 5 and make it more clear...just in case other people viewing this thread have a triple digit iq and are able to understand.

Low gene flow, but certainly not zero. Gene flow increases the OPTIONS of what the next generation can be, which is then filtered by reproductive pressures.

It is analogous to blacksmithing. Gene flow provides the heat which makes the iron malleable, and the survival strategy is loke the hammer that shapes the metal.

Hammering without heat is wasted effort, and so is heat without hammering.

It is also similar conceptually to what is called the 'goldilocks zone' for planets where it is possible for life to develop. Too hot, and complex molecules simply cannot form...the heat breaks them up before they become complex enough. Too cold and complex molecules still cannot form because there isn't enough motion to get stuff interacting eith eachother.

So yeah, to get a high tajimas d number you would need f
Relatively low gene flow overall...but with ZERO gene flow you will also have zero tajimas d...because there simply are not options to select from. If every organism has exactly the name number of progeny, then you also have low tajimas number...because the number of options is basically wasted because they were all chosen. You actually can have high tajimas number with rather high gene flow...but it would imply that there is also very high mortality.

[ingliz]

@FiveofSwords

Mohamed Noor, Explanation of Tajima's D, a statistic used in molecular evolution studies of DNA sequences