[MB.]

Who is to blame? Or is anyone to blame?

[U184]

It is hard to tell. Artists are told to start with what they know. The public has a fascination with disaster. The whole rubber neck syndrome.

Gangs have come a long way. The gang society of today is more like the mobsters from the late 20's. Drugs and prostitution has taken the place of the booze and the gambling.

So it is what it is. One can combat the symptoms or combat the cause. The problem is that the cause is so interwoven with so many other problems that it is very hard to deal with all the aspects.

there is something to be said for limiting the content of all media to weed out extremes that are unwanted and generally not tolerated in polite society.

[Okonkwo]

The rappers themselves mostly. They provide such horrible role models for young black men, glorifying drug abuse and thuggery is not what will lift this race out of its misery. African American culture has fallen from the hands of the civil rights leaders into the hands of criminals.

[Brio]

They provide such horrible role models for young black men, glorifying drug abuse and thuggery is not what will lift this race out of its misery.

You would think that most poor African-Americans would see through the rappers glorification of drug abuse and violent crime, since they often have to deal with such things first-hand and the results are not pretty. Having to bury family/friends at a young age due to gang violence is just tragic, and I've seen drug abuse first hand and it is no way a fun way to live.

However, my experience with African-Americans is limited since I live in a small town with only two black families living here (if only my town wasn't founded by racist Scottish immigrants, the diversity of this place might be better). I see instead the result that these rappers have on white, middle-class, suburban kids and their emulation of the "gangsta lifestyle" is just ridiculous.

African American culture has fallen from the hands of the civil rights leaders into the hands of criminals.

QFT. It is such a sad development.

[Okonkwo]

I see instead the result that these rappers have on white, middle-class, suburban kids and their emulation of the "gangsta lifestyle" is just ridiculous.

I agree, it's more than ridiculous. But these white, (upper) middle-class kids tend to have normal family relations to fall back on, caring parents that eventually tell them to stop it, go to college and be a yuppie like the rest of them.

[Brio]

I agree, it's more than ridiculous. But these white, (upper) middle-class kids tend to have normal family relations to fall back on, caring parents that eventually tell them to stop it, go to college and be a yuppie like the rest of them.

Oh great just what the world needs more yuppies. But what you say is true for the most part.

Why do poor African-American youths try to emulate gangsta rappers and their lifestyle of violence and drug abuse, when they can often see what a huge detriment these things have on their communities? Is it because they are young and impressionable? Is it because they see these rappers as having escaped poverty and by emulating their gangsta lifestyle they too may have a chance of escaping such poverty?

I ask these questions out of curiosity, since it seems peculiar that such people would want to emulate this lifestyle given their experience with the negatives of it, and how it just furthers the unjust stereotype that all blacks are criminals, drug dealers and hoodlums.

[albionfagan]

Blame for what, there's no direct link...

I like some gangster rap, I don't shoot people, the majority don't. Same thing with heavy metal and teen suicides, there's no link, you can't start blaming music.

[Okonkwo]

Oh great just what the world needs more yuppies.

I'm glad we agree on that, screw the yuppies.

Why do poor African-American youths try to emulate gangsta rappers and their lifestyle of violence and drug abuse, when they can often see what a huge detriment these things have on their communities?

I'm sure I am going to get a lot of criticism for that, but contemporary hip hop culture is not about the effect of selling drugs to your community but rather the benefits for yourself. It allows you to buy expensive clothes, drive expensive cars and act like a millionaire, and if you really put some effort in it, you might even ascend into the ranks of 'pimp', which is the epitome of being a 'gangster/player'. The view on your own community is completely blocked out by your own selfish interest. (contrary to Adam Smith, in this circumstance that doesn't amount greater effectiveness )
*to be read with a tiny amount of sarcasm in mind

Is it because they are young and impressionable?

I believe so. W.A.S.P.s install family values and stress that you must attain a high education to be successful very early on. This is simply not given in the black community, hence when they grow up they don't have the goal of a high education and a functioning family, but rather of a thuggish life.

Is it because they see these rappers as having escaped poverty and by emulating their gangsta lifestyle they too may have a chance of escaping such poverty?

I do think so, yes. That's why you can see so many amateur rappers out there, they think that if they'll just write a few rhymes and insist hard enough that they are real gangsters, they'll make money just like the known rappers. Obviously that's nonsense, there is hardly a music market that is horribly full these days and the music industry itself is in a severe crisis.

it just furthers the unjust stereotype that all blacks are criminals, drug dealers and hoodlums.

We should be honest about this, African Americans have a very high crime rate and hip hop isn't going to change anything about that.

[FallenRaptor]

Gangsta rap is popular for the same reason gangster movies are popular - it sells.

Why do the African-American youth look to thugs and consequently entertainers acting as thugs? Well, who else are they going to look up to? The civil rights movement pretty much withered after the 1970s, and revolutionary organizations like the Black Panthers were disintegrated by the state with most of it's members either killed or sent to prison. Throughout all of American history, most black people have been in poverty, and in the ghettos it has been the thugs who have been the most successful economically. Getting rid of gangsta rap isn't going to change that.

[Brio]

It allows you to buy expensive clothes, drive expensive cars and act like a millionaire

Until you get nabbed by the DEA and join 50% of the prison population as a drug offender. Of course rapper's music videos rarely show this outcome.

(contrary to Adam Smith, in this circumstance that doesn't amount greater effectiveness )

You mean greed doesn't equal happy times for everyone? Of course in his defense, Adam Smith never had to deal with a crack epidemic.

W.A.S.P.s install family values and stress that you must attain a high education to be successful very early on.

Lets not over generalize. I live in a white working class town (that is now dying since the auto industry took a nose dive) and many people around here don't have high school let alone college/university degrees. This was because 20-30 years ago you didn't need any education to become a factory worker that made a fair good amount of money because they were unionized. Now you can't even sweep floors without a Grade 12 much to the detriment of those people. However, if your parent didn't get higher education and don't value it, regardless of race, they are going to instill in their children this indifference and even disdain for further education.

That's why you can see so many amateur rappers out there, they think that if they'll just write a few rhymes and insist hard enough that they are real gangsters, they'll make money just like the known rappers.

To the detriment of people who have to listen to these amateurs who think they are going to make it big and get rich. I love hip hop/rap but I'm tired of having to hear shitty ryhme after shitty rhyme from friends and aquaintances. About 1 in 100 has real talent and should try to further that, the rest are just seemingly relying on that German small-arms maker Glock rhymes with so many things.

there is hardly a music market that is horribly full these days and the music industry itself is in a severe crisis.

Agreed.

We should be honest about this, African Americans have a very high crime rate and hip hop isn't going to change anything about that.

Fair and true enough.

Well, who else are they going to look up to? The civil rights movement pretty much withered after the 1970s, and revolutionary organizations like the Black Panthers were disintegrated by the state with most of it's members either killed or sent to prison.

I was actually going to point this out in my last post but thought that people would just come back with "Obama" is president, how is that not a role model etc. etc."

[FallenRaptor]

I was actually going to point this out in my last post but thought that people would just come back with "Obama" is president, how is that not a role model etc. etc."

Obama is relatively new in the public eye, but there is no denying that he has become influential on the African-American youth. That being said, I think a big problem with the most of the few black 'leaders' in political life is that they don't relate that much with most black people. It's mainly because most of them are sociologically closer to rich white people than poor black people.

I want to expand on my earlier post about why gangsterism sells. I think it's because gangsterism largely parallels with capitalism. In the end they both come down to 'Get Money, Fuck Bitches'.

[Average Voter]

Gangsta rap means little now because it is a dying genre. The respected artists are aging, and the new ones are struggling to gain popularity. So the market, people losing interest in it, is solving the problem if it is even considered to be the problem.

Is it to blame for violence? I wouldn't think so. Then again, Elvis sparked the sexual revolution through his dirty inappropriate music and dancing. Thousands of women to wanted to sleep with him because of that, so there may be a relation between music influencing culture.

[Brio]

Then again, Elvis sparked the sexual revolution through his dirty inappropriate music and dancing.

I think the advent of the Sexual Revolution had more to with advances in birth control than Elvis shaking his hips onstage.

[Average Voter]

I think the advent of the Sexual Revolution had more to with advances in birth control than Elvis shaking his hips onstage.

I suppose music is not as influential as we make it out to be.

[Oxymoron]

Who is to blame for describing life as it is seen through the eyes of the Underprivileged?

[Cheesecake_Marmalade]

there seems to be a lot of bias in this thread against music without any actual analysis. You guys spell out the reason in your own posts.

Why do poor African-American youths try to emulate gangsta rappers and their lifestyle of violence and drug abuse, when they can often see what a huge detriment these things have on their communities? Is it because they are young and impressionable? Is it because they see these rappers as having escaped poverty and by emulating their gangsta lifestyle they too may have a chance of escaping such poverty?

Well that's a good question. FallenRaptor identifies a better question though.

Why do the African-American youth look to thugs and consequently entertainers acting as thugs? Well, who else are they going to look up to?

Hmm, who do whites look up to?

I believe so. W.A.S.P.s install family values and stress that you must attain a high education to be successful very early on. This is simply not given in the black community, hence when they grow up they don't have the goal of a high education and a functioning family, but rather of a thuggish life.

The answer actually came very early on.

these white, (upper) middle-class kids tend to have normal family relations to fall back on, caring parents that eventually tell them to stop it, go to college and be a yuppie like the rest of them.

As Okonkwo points out when observing the behavior of white youth, they already have positive role models in their life. They don't need to look towards some gussied up minstrel show to get their values. It would have been unthinkable for black people to take their cues from the blackface of the early 20th century, so what happened between now and them that made it so acceptable?

Probably the advent of single mothers. With their mother figures not instilling values in them because they're either at work 24/7 in a shitty job or being funded by the state to do nothing but smoke crack, fuck, and ignore their kid, and their father figures strangely absent, these kids and teenagers turn to the only viable source of inspiration: rappers, just like them, making it big, just by being manly and hateful.

Is rap contributing to the problem? Absomotherfuckinglutely. But there was a problem to contribute in the first place, and you're not going to keep black kids off the streets and out of the gangs by banning rap, you're going to get them off the streets by providing them positive examples. In my opinion, this should be fathers. Black women certainly are taking to this.

The black single mother rate has LOWERED by 15 percent in the last decade or so down to 65 percent. Is this incredibly high? I'd say so. Is it way better than it was before? Of course.

[Brio]

Hmm, who do whites look up to?


brio wrote:
I believe so. W.A.S.P.s install family values and stress that you must attain a high education to be successful very early on. This is simply not given in the black community, hence when they grow up they don't have the goal of a high education and a functioning family, but rather of a thuggish life.

CM I didn't write this, Okonkwo did. Next time please check more carefully when you're quoting people.

But there was a problem to contribute in the first place, and you're not going to keep black kids off the streets and out of the gangs by banning rap,

I never stated that rap should be banned or that rap was the problem. I just was asking why young (mostly male) African-Americans would readily turn to the world of gang violence and drug dealing (portrayed in gangsta rap videos) when they can see the effects these things have on their community daily. I thought Okonkwo gave a pretty reasonable explanation.

The black single mother rate has LOWERED by 15 percent in the last decade or so down to 65 percent.

That's an interesting statistic. Out of curiosity what source do you base this on?